Liverpool FC Forum

Just thinking next season could be reminiscent to the Voy era If we dont't click.

My brother reckons they are showing that clip of the players partying on Sky Sports News now. Sky see the irony even if some of our fans don't. Club is turning into a laughing stock.

The sky sports presenters were a bit miffed - um i duno  what to make of that ! Seemed like they were singing ya ya toure and Kolo?  f*cking hell. This is payback for the Moyes treatment its f*cking karma

Thommo's perm » Wed May 27, 2015 9:12 am wrote:What you are saying is that people are happy with Sundays result and where we finished in the league. This couldnt be further from the truth. I personally am Fu*king fuming at how we publicly imploded and threw away a legitimate chance of finishing in the top 3, never mind top 4. But to blame it all on the manager is silly and unfair. Of course he has to take the majority of the responsibility as he sorts the tactics, formations and team selection, but there have been other major factors in this seasons fiasco. The Sterling story and Gerrards announcement to leave both took their toll and morale has been terrible for months. Of course the managers constant bullsh'it to the media didnt help, nor his picking of players who were either unwilling or unable to do the job. The money thats been spent on certain players looks to have been a mistake, but others simply havent had the chance, or taken it when they have.
We mustnt fall into the trap of thinking that a new manager will guarantee instant success because it wont. He will bring in a new method and new staff and probably new players, and all these things will take time to work, if they work at all. Lets not forget that FSG do things their way and wont be rushed into hasty decisions just because people are calling for Rodgers head. People are already criticising interest in the likes of Ings and Bentekke, but what we would have given for those two last season instead of Sterling and Balotelli?
We need a little time to calm ourselves and take stock and analyse what went wrong and why. Rodgers is here until Christmas at the earliest, so lets see what happens over the summer before we start acting like evertonians and mancs. Once the deadwood and distractions have gone we will see where we stand and what weve got. Be positive and good things will happen...

But Rodgers isn't being blamed for ALL of our problems.

As many forum members including myself have highlighted a lot of the current problems stem from a combination of many things.

1. It's evident that we have gone down a disastrous road of recruiting players and for one I don't think that this strategy or approach will change under FSG. Simply because they aren't prepared to take massive risks on players over 25yo that ask for premium wages. If you look at the last three years alone, we have only signed 3 players over the age of 25! From these three Lambert and Toure are almost in the twilight of their careers! So Adam Lallana is the only player to arrive anywhere close to reaching his peak and I'm convinced we just bought him because of the home grown rule anyway.

2. As we have lost Suarez / Gerrard, Sturridge spending the entire season on a doctor's table and Sterling almost with his foot out the door we are placed in a position that has asked many questions of our owner's ambitions and our ability in acquiring class to replace these players. I agree whether its Rodgers or anyone else managing us, how exactly are we supposed to be competitive if our best players leave without having the funds or a restrictive youth policy that allows you to bring in like for like replacements? I can't see Benitez or Ancelotti working under these conditions, maybe Klopp, but why would he? That's why this club is ideal for a young and relatively inexperienced manager that can work within these constraints.

3. The reality is that we aren't going to be in the CL for a few years unless some dramatic changes take place at the club. Bringing in players like Ings, Milner and Benteke will only further our fall from the top. They aren't players we need. I would rather spend the money in bringing in just one or two key players, someone like a Vidal or a Benzema or a Reus, etc. Imagine the difference one of these players would make. They would inspire the youngsters, give us some real experience and unite the fanbase that we are going somewhere. The problem is that we are not going to do that, not under this regime.

4. Personally I think Sterling leaving is not a good thing and I don't know why supporters are happy with him leaving. The kid is a bad apple that hasn't been managed properly during his time here and obviously has advisors working against the club. But sometimes you need selfish individuals to do well, it's just part of life, in my eyes its just what you are willing to accept. I find it incredibly ironic that the media have driven us to paint Sterling and Suarez in the same pantomime villain light yet Manure over the years had no problems winning titles with the likes of Nani, Roy Keane or Eric Cantona while Cheatski had the likes John Terry and an army of "divers" winning them titles. Led by an awful individual in Mourinho. The hypocrisy is staggering. I also can't understand why we haven't smartened up to this. This notion of not spending money like Chelsea or City while winning the title with a bunch of 11 angels (preferably from the City of Liverpool) as the only 'honourable' way of winning is f**king embarrassing really!

You asked for analysis and there it is. Hardly any of it to do with Rodgers.

As I said time and time again, Rodgers is just a very small cog in all of this.

eds » Thu May 28, 2015 1:28 am wrote:
1. It's evident that we have gone down a disastrous road of recruiting players and for one I don't think that this strategy or approach will change under FSG. Simply because they aren't prepared to take massive risks on players over 25yo that ask for premium wages. If you look at the last three years alone, we have only signed 3 players over the age of 25! From these three Lambert and Toure are almost in the twilight of their careers! So Adam Lallana is the only player to arrive anywhere close to reaching his peak and I'm convinced we just bought him because of the home grown rule anyway.

Mignolet is 27, Aspas is 27
Lovren, Sakho, Sturridge, Allen, Balotelli, Assaidi, were all bought at an age of 24-25 as established first team players for their clubs.
We have also tried to get players like Alexis Sanchez.
Its not like we are just trying to get untested kids.

I would rather spend the money in bringing in just one or two key players, someone like a Vidal or a Benzema or a Reus, etc. Imagine the difference one of these players would make. They would inspire the youngsters, give us some real experience and unite the fanbase that we are going somewhere. The problem is that we are not going to do that, not under this regime.

Why would Vidal, Benzema or Reus come to us? The problem isnt the regime or the percieved lack of money. All of those players would have a lot of offers from other top clubs if they were available for transfer. At the moment we are not anywhere near as attractive as other top clubs. We dont have any real star players in the squad, we cant offer CL and we have a manager that has never won anything and keeps on making a fool of himself in the media. Even Man City when they had more money than god, struggled to get the really top players for a while.

Last season when we finished 2'nd and got CL was our big chance to get some more top quality players. But we lost it again when we sold our biggest attraction by far. Everyone could see how important Suarez was for the team, and that we would likely struggle without him.

As long as we cant pick and choose from the top shelf, we have to try to get some younger players with great potential or find some "hidden talent" and build from that. Preferably with a manager that knows how to spot top talent, and knows how to get the best from the players he has.

I will admit to being in the Rodgers out camp but not with any glee or satisfaction. I think it's a close call and I personally think we need a new manager although I have no bad feeling to Rodgers it's just I think it's gone wrong for him and a few situations have lead to his demise.

I don't think any of the signings were bad ones last year as they happened and even if he didn't sign any of them his job is still to win games using the players available. If he wants to get a style of play then he had to say no to the transfers as the contradiction of players and style was going to lead to conflict at some point.

He is young and learning fair point but with the progress of other clubs we can't afford the long wait even if it might be the best thing long term as unfortunately while we could possibly develop a great young squad into a title winning squad, our rivals will be picking off our talent as it emerges putting us in a one step forward one step back position. Left to develop with no outside pressure I think Rodgers would be superb but that is simply not the world we occupy.

The hiding at Stoke was bad on many levels. I don't need to add to that.

For me, Europe was the defining moment as we should have qualified from the group stage or gone further in the Europa league. This to me highlighted the big weakness with Rodgers.

Although last season was superb we did not have Europe. We want to be a club in fact have to be a club competing in Europe so those pressures have to be dealt with.

If it looks like we are going to be a selling club then I do worry. How many homegrown youngsters have we developed in the last three seasons especially ones that could be sold for a lot of money. Not a million for Kelly e.g.
Also compared to the benficas and Ajax. We could be simply a stepping stone club not a true finder or developer of talent as they are, but a club to get epl experience till they move on. That's a possible scenario and that scares me. Clubs with better scouting find them, we give them millions, we make a few million in a few years time, our youth don't get a chance.

Hence why, thanks for the effort and I even buy into the developing players as people, etc etc but give me a hard mean manager who is ruthless and just wants to win.

Personally Rafa but I don't want that debate but in the harsh reality of top end premier league it's all about the next game and top four. If you can do all the nice things then great but winning and cl is first end of

eds » Thu May 28, 2015 1:28 am wrote:

Thommo's perm » Wed May 27, 2015 9:12 am wrote:What you are saying is that people are happy with Sundays result and where we finished in the league. This couldnt be further from the truth. I personally am Fu*king fuming at how we publicly imploded and threw away a legitimate chance of finishing in the top 3, never mind top 4. But to blame it all on the manager is silly and unfair. Of course he has to take the majority of the responsibility as he sorts the tactics, formations and team selection, but there have been other major factors in this seasons fiasco. The Sterling story and Gerrards announcement to leave both took their toll and morale has been terrible for months. Of course the managers constant bullsh'it to the media didnt help, nor his picking of players who were either unwilling or unable to do the job. The money thats been spent on certain players looks to have been a mistake, but others simply havent had the chance, or taken it when they have.
We mustnt fall into the trap of thinking that a new manager will guarantee instant success because it wont. He will bring in a new method and new staff and probably new players, and all these things will take time to work, if they work at all. Lets not forget that FSG do things their way and wont be rushed into hasty decisions just because people are calling for Rodgers head. People are already criticising interest in the likes of Ings and Bentekke, but what we would have given for those two last season instead of Sterling and Balotelli?
We need a little time to calm ourselves and take stock and analyse what went wrong and why. Rodgers is here until Christmas at the earliest, so lets see what happens over the summer before we start acting like evertonians and mancs. Once the deadwood and distractions have gone we will see where we stand and what weve got. Be positive and good things will happen...

But Rodgers isn't being blamed for ALL of our problems.

As many forum members including myself have highlighted a lot of the current problems stem from a combination of many things.

1. It's evident that we have gone down a disastrous road of recruiting players and for one I don't think that this strategy or approach will change under FSG. Simply because they aren't prepared to take massive risks on players over 25yo that ask for premium wages. If you look at the last three years alone, we have only signed 3 players over the age of 25! From these three Lambert and Toure are almost in the twilight of their careers! So Adam Lallana is the only player to arrive anywhere close to reaching his peak and I'm convinced we just bought him because of the home grown rule anyway.

2. As we have lost Suarez / Gerrard, Sturridge spending the entire season on a doctor's table and Sterling almost with his foot out the door we are placed in a position that has asked many questions of our owner's ambitions and our ability in acquiring class to replace these players. I agree whether its Rodgers or anyone else managing us, how exactly are we supposed to be competitive if our best players leave without having the funds or a restrictive youth policy that allows you to bring in like for like replacements? I can't see Benitez or Ancelotti working under these conditions, maybe Klopp, but why would he? That's why this club is ideal for a young and relatively inexperienced manager that can work within these constraints.

3. The reality is that we aren't going to be in the CL for a few years unless some dramatic changes take place at the club. Bringing in players like Ings, Milner and Benteke will only further our fall from the top. They aren't players we need. I would rather spend the money in bringing in just one or two key players, someone like a Vidal or a Benzema or a Reus, etc. Imagine the difference one of these players would make. They would inspire the youngsters, give us some real experience and unite the fanbase that we are going somewhere. The problem is that we are not going to do that, not under this regime.

4. Personally I think Sterling leaving is not a good thing and I don't know why supporters are happy with him leaving. The kid is a bad apple that hasn't been managed properly during his time here and obviously has advisors working against the club. But sometimes you need selfish individuals to do well, it's just part of life, in my eyes its just what you are willing to accept. I find it incredibly ironic that the media have driven us to paint Sterling and Suarez in the same pantomime villain light yet Manure over the years had no problems winning titles with the likes of Nani, Roy Keane or Eric Cantona while Cheatski had the likes John Terry and an army of "divers" winning them titles. Led by an awful individual in Mourinho. The hypocrisy is staggering. I also can't understand why we haven't smartened up to this. This notion of not spending money like Chelsea or City while winning the title with a bunch of 11 angels (preferably from the City of Liverpool) as the only 'honourable' way of winning is f**king embarrassing really!

You asked for analysis and there it is. Hardly any of it to do with Rodgers.

As I said time and time again, Rodgers is just a very small cog in all of this.

With respect eds, the thread is titled "Job too big for Rodgers?". The whole topic of conversation is about his ability (or lack of it) to make LFC a force again. The discussion is primarily focused on whether he should keep his job or be sacked, not whether FSG should go?
You make some decent points, but the majority of people both on and off here are discussing the manager's future, and they are putting our decline down to him. I think its too easy to make him the scapegoat, and like you, I see other elements adding to our current state. But I stand by my comments and believe that the summer will be a key time in his leadership, and once the distractions are sorted he will show what he can do, or not, as the case may be?

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 27, 2015 3:10 pm wrote:

Santa » Wed May 27, 2015 12:47 pm wrote:You know it has hit rock bottom when the team just suffered a 5 goals whopping in the first 45 mins, players not giving a shit while wearing the shirt, minds on holidays and merely going through the motion yet some ass here choose to be happy calling it team spirit. Get a fucking life will ya and stop all these bullshit...where are your pride watching us got hammered by the mighty Palace and Stoke in consecutive weeks and still choose to look away and pretending we are not in some serious shit? Supporters? deluded more like 

We've had players playing for this club in the past who wouldn't have been able to get out of bed for 2 days after a result like that.
Our most humiliating defeat in half a century and hours later the players are partying like they couldn't care less, says it all really. No wonder we are losers and also rans.
Probably had a great night when we got our @rses handed to us by Villa at Wembley too.
When you think that players like Kevin Keegan and Emlyn Hughes got paid a couple of hundred pounds a week and you see that bunch of losers dancing around in a millionaires paradise it just puts everything into perspective.
Then again I'm calling them losers, the real losers are the fans who pay for all this.
5-0 down at half time to a team built around Charlie Adam and Jon Walters 

That's modern footballers for you mate. It's not just Liverpool it's everywhere. It's a crazy world we live in. It's not really their fault though, it's ours.

mart » Thu May 28, 2015 7:44 am wrote:

eds » Thu May 28, 2015 1:28 am wrote:
1. It's evident that we have gone down a disastrous road of recruiting players and for one I don't think that this strategy or approach will change under FSG. Simply because they aren't prepared to take massive risks on players over 25yo that ask for premium wages. If you look at the last three years alone, we have only signed 3 players over the age of 25! From these three Lambert and Toure are almost in the twilight of their careers! So Adam Lallana is the only player to arrive anywhere close to reaching his peak and I'm convinced we just bought him because of the home grown rule anyway.

Mignolet is 27, Aspas is 27
Lovren, Sakho, Sturridge, Allen, Balotelli, Assaidi, were all bought at an age of 24-25 as established first team players for their clubs.
We have also tried to get players like Alexis Sanchez.
Its not like we are just trying to get untested kids.

I don't know what point you are making?
We all know most quality players hit their peak after 25 so this whole penny pinching obsession of buying younger players is a cancer that needs to be stopped.
I didn't include Mignolet because he is a goalkeeper as obviously we aren't going to go buy an under 25yo and have him as our first choice goal keeper, as there are hardly any quality goalkeepers out there under 25yo and if they exist (i.e. De Gea) they cost an absolute fortune.
Aspas was 25 when we bought him.
I didn't say we are getting untested kids, but our strategy has obviously been skewed towards a certain age. Hasn't it?
Sanchez BTW was 25 last year when we were after him.

mart » Thu May 28, 2015 7:44 am wrote:
Why would Vidal, Benzema or Reus come to us? The problem isnt the regime or the percieved lack of money. All of those players would have a lot of offers from other top clubs if they were available for transfer. At the moment we are not anywhere near as attractive as other top clubs. We dont have any real star players in the squad, we cant offer CL and we have a manager that has never won anything and keeps on making a fool of himself in the media. Even Man City when they had more money than god, struggled to get the really top players for a while.

Last season when we finished 2'nd and got CL was our big chance to get some more top quality players. But we lost it again when we sold our biggest attraction by far. Everyone could see how important Suarez was for the team, and that we would likely struggle without him.

As long as we cant pick and choose from the top shelf, we have to try to get some younger players with great potential or find some "hidden talent" and build from that. Preferably with a manager that knows how to spot top talent, and knows how to get the best from the players he has.

The problem IS THE REGIME and the lack of money in buying quality. Otherwise who else is at fault? Rodgers being at our club to begin with is just another proof point of how fundamentally broken we currently are. Under a different regime this charlatan wouldn't be anywhere near our club let alone bringing in the dross he has been with this ridiculous skew on under 25yo players. We don't have any real star players because we don't want to pay for them or what is even worse we have NO AMBITION in keeping them (i.e. Suarez and soon to be Sterling).  It's a perfect recipe for mediocrity.

The strategy that you mention of bringing in youth and "hidden talent" is a pipe dream and will never work. Why? Because we are already seeing what happens when players like Sterling start to get "itchy" and see no progress. Even if we brought in a "world class" manager that spotted the best young talent in the world, we would struggle keeping these players after a season or two if we continually finished outside the top 4 and continued trophyless. That's not even counting the fact that spotting young talent is one of the hardest things to do in world football. 

The only way to build our squad is signing quality and the only way to do that is throwing money at them with the vision and promise that we will keep adding quality to the ranks. Something which FSG is against and is the main reason why we are sliding into oblivion.

Fowler_E7 » Wed May 27, 2015 1:25 pm wrote:

Santa » Wed May 27, 2015 12:47 pm wrote:You know it has hit rock bottom when the team just suffered a 5 goals whopping in the first 45 mins, players not giving a shit while wearing the shirt, minds on holidays and merely going through the motion yet some ass here choose to be happy calling it team spirit. Get a fucking life will ya and stop all these bullshit...where are your pride watching us got hammered by the mighty Palace and Stoke in consecutive weeks and still choose to look away and pretending we are not in some serious shit? Supporters? deluded more like 

Easy love, that time of the month or something? I think every supporter has a right to be fuming with the performance of the team this season and last especially last weekend, however them going on holiday to Dubai means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, if they players want to give Gerrard a send off good on them, its the least he deserves.

  I can definitely see where you're coming from with all these, I really do...I'm sure team camaraderie are at all time high and the players are thinking the same when they played Villa trying to give Stevie a prefect Wembley sending off present, the same "spirited" display when we played Palace during Stevie Anfield goodbye and they surely hammered it in with a memorial day out at Britannia for Stevie's last ever match in a LFC shirt. Yeah I'm sure they were all really thinking about Stevie's legacy. What's your point really? 

Now if only the team showed a fraction of the energy on the field rather than in Dubai, that will help the supporters palette with this shamble of a season

Thommo's perm » Thu May 28, 2015 10:36 am wrote:
With respect eds, the thread is titled "Job too big for Rodgers?". The whole topic of conversation is about his ability (or lack of it) to make LFC a force again. The discussion is primarily focused on whether he should keep his job or be sacked, not whether FSG should go?
You make some decent points, but the majority of people both on and off here are discussing the manager's future, and they are putting our decline down to him. I think its too easy to make him the scapegoat, and like you, I see other elements adding to our current state. But I stand by my comments and believe that the summer will be a key time in his leadership, and once the distractions are sorted he will show what he can do, or not, as the case may be?

I only said what i had to say because you bluntly stated that the supporters wanting Rodgers out are blaming him for ALL our problems.

I want him out but I completely understand that he isn't the beginning or end of our problems, bringing in another manager will not currently help us.

But neither will keeping him. 

We need our owners to sell up, or grow some ba.lls fire Rodgers bring in a quality manager and BACK him with funds and none of this moneyball or youth policy nonsense.

I can't seem them doing this though.   

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed May 27, 2015 1:10 pm wrote:

Santa » Wed May 27, 2015 12:47 pm wrote:You know it has hit rock bottom when the team just suffered a 5 goals whopping in the first 45 mins, players not giving a shit while wearing the shirt, minds on holidays and merely going through the motion yet some ass here choose to be happy calling it team spirit. Get a fucking life will ya and stop all these bullshit...where are your pride watching us got hammered by the mighty Palace and Stoke in consecutive weeks and still choose to look away and pretending we are not in some serious shit? Supporters? deluded more like 

We've had players playing for this club in the past who wouldn't have been able to get out of bed for 2 days after a result like that.
Our most humiliating defeat in half a century and hours later the players are partying like they couldn't care less, says it all really. No wonder we are losers and also rans.
Probably had a great night when we got our @rses handed to us by Villa at Wembley too.
When you think that players like Kevin Keegan and Emlyn Hughes got paid a couple of hundred pounds a week and you see that bunch of losers dancing around in a millionaires paradise it just puts everything into perspective.
Then again I'm calling them losers, the real losers are the fans who pay for all this.
5-0 down at half time to a team built around Charlie Adam and Jon Walters 

It's called Professional Pride as if that sort of things still registered with today's highly paid players? But question have to be asked if the players really still play for Rodgers, whether he still command any weight or respect in the dressing room or it's just down to the players attitude? Of course kicking out Rodgers and the deadwoods will NOT solved ALL our problems but that will be the solid first step towards turning the tide...guys upstairs and those over at Boston need to stop drinking their own Kool Aid.

So I don't care how much some may think of Rodgers potential, once you've lost respect for someone, especially in a professional team environment, it will be hard to earn them back. Players will know the buttons they need to push whenever they don't see eye to eye with him going forward and any tactical or leadership talk from Rodgers will be flushed down the toilet as soon as they are out of the room. And for that reason, he must be out!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... an-rodgers

Southhampton again! seriously.... we got 2 expensive flops + a Southhampton red hot special from their reject bin.

Same manager, same transfer committee, same *****.

...same cheap skate bids. Enough is being said 

the way i see it is this, it's quite simple actually,
currently we have three top managers who had won the league - carlos ant, klopp and rafa,
available. this means that we can appoint either of them without paying millions in compensation.

i see this as a perfect opportunity, but should we decided to sack BR mid next season then the above mentioned
managers will not be available, at least without huge financial costs involved.
so it is really an easy decision now.