Should we change Manager?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby jacdaniel » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:16 pm

I know we already have a Rodgers thread and hell we even have a Klopp thread.   While us fan's are obviously very passionate and emotional about football, I wanted to make a thread to discuss whether we should change manager looking at all the information we have
available.  (No knee-jerk responses please)  I'm hoping for some debate on the big issues and not dissecting minor details like subs made in 1 game. 

First of all we should look at some of the reasons for keeping Rodgers. 

1)  He has us back challenging again and came close to winning a title. 

Some people don't want to see this right now but its true.  Rodgers inherited a team that had finished 8th on 52 points.   The cup runs largely masked the fact that we had a weak team.  In his first season, although the results weren't great it was clear we were playing better football and making progress.  2nd season we almost won the league.  3rd season we will most likely miss out on top 4 but we have at least challenged for it.  Different results in the United / Arsenal games and we might be talking about a very different season right now.  Not to mention we are only the 5th richest side and have no automatic right to a CL place.

2)  We've gone on some very impressive runs in the league 

We all want the PL title more than anything and Rodgers has shown at times that he is capable of putting some serious runs together in the league.  Even this season with all the issues we've had we still had title winning form over a 2 month period. 

3)  When we're good, we're good 

The team last season was a joy to watch, we literally tore some of our opponents to pieces including Spurs and Arsenal.  With the right personnel, I think Rodgers could recreate the type of form we showed in the 2nd half of last season. 

4)  He has had to manage some big situations that any manager would struggle to handle 

Suarez leaving was obviously going to have an impact this season.  It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.
Sturridge missing 90% of the season is something no one could have predicted. (although we knew a few weeks would be likely)
He's also had to manage the decline and retirements of 2 club legends.
With a fit Sturrdige I think we might have finished top 4 and maybe gotten to the FA Cup final at least.   


Now lets look at some of the reasons for looking to change manager.

1)  Recruitment!

The single biggest problem at the club in my opinion is our Recruitment.
Lovren, Balotelli, Borini, Aspas, Alberto, Lambert, Manquillo, Assaidi, Sahin are / were all major flops to be honest. 
Markovic, Lallana, Moreno, Allen, Can, Sakho - Jury is still out
Mignolet and Toure are average at best as well
The only 2 players that have 100% improved the side are Coutinho and Sturridge. 

Thats a pathetic return and one the owners won't be happy with.  But who is signing the players? 
Us fans really don't know the answer to that question but I am certain that the owners do. 

If their policy of signing young players is to blame then they need to change it urgently. 
If the committee is to blame, then the owners need to review that and implement a system that may work.
This is the most essential issue for us to fix this summer.

2)  Style of play not implemented  / Can't find a balance

This is the one that really irks me.  I was under the impression that we'd be a really good possession team under Rodgers and we'd be agressively pressing but it hasn't happened consistently.  (Been great when it has)
Again, we can link this to Recruitment as we haven't signed the right players for it. 
Why we haven't is whats baffling. 

He also can't find a balance between defence and attack.  Last season we were brilliant going forward but awful at the back. 
This season we were decent at the back but awful up front. 

3) Mentally Weak - No leadership

We can't win big games when something is on the line.  Zenit in his first season.  Chelsea and Palace last season.
Basel earlier this season.  The matches against United / Arsenal a few weeks back and now Villa can join the list.   

This ties in with recruitment and the need for more senior players at the club.  Big players win big matches, young players choke without
real leadership on the field.

4)  Average bench

Its unfortunately true.  Too often our bench consists of flops like Lambert, Balotelli, Jones, Toure and we have no one that can actually
come on and change a game.  After the money spent, thats a poor problem to have. 


Conclusion:  After 3 years of Rodgers I think he has shown that he has potential to go on a winning run in the PL and has the ability to play a really good brand of football with the right personnel available.  With the right personnel I believe he can win us a league title.  He's also managed to get us challenging despite having to manage tough situations such as players leaving / injured / retiring.  What really concerns me though is our Recruitment.  There doesn't seem to any logic behind our transfers.  Why sign 2 immobile strikers when our attack was based on mobility?  We don't seem to sign players to play in a system either.  Its almost like we just sign players and wonder later on how we'll use them. 

I must admit that I've lost a lot of faith in Rodgers over the last few weeks. 

The most important thing now is for the owners to review our Recruitment and analyse each transfer. 
If Rodgers has sanctioned the arrival of these players then I'd be inclined to say a change is needed or at least help from a DOF to implement a system and sign players to fit the system.   
However, if a large portion of the flops have been forced on him, then I think he gets another season with a new Recruitment set up. 

Big decisions for our owners to make this summer.
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Postby aCe' » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:00 pm

jacdaniel » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:16 pm wrote:
Conclusion:  After 3 years of Rodgers I think he has shown that he has potential to go on a winning run in the PL and has the ability to play a really good brand of football with the right personnel available.  With the right personnel I believe he can win us a league title.  He's also managed to get us challenging despite having to manage tough situations such as players leaving / injured / retiring.  What really concerns me though is our Recruitment.  There doesn't seem to any logic behind our transfers.  Why sign 2 immobile strikers when our attack was based on mobility?  We don't seem to sign players to play in a system either.  Its almost like we just sign players and wonder later on how we'll use them. 

I must admit that I've lost a lot of faith in Rodgers over the last few weeks. 

The most important thing now is for the owners to review our Recruitment and analyse each transfer. 
If Rodgers has sanctioned the arrival of these players then I'd be inclined to say a change is needed or at least help from a DOF to implement a system and sign players to fit the system.   
However, if a large portion of the flops have been forced on him, then I think he gets another season with a new Recruitment set up. 

Big decisions for our owners to make this summer.



This is all I read and I agree with it.  :blues:
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Postby Dundreamin is back » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:55 pm

YES
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Postby andy c legs » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:34 pm

Great piece that. Covers everything.

In a nutshell it's his lack of decent signings that's been the problem and that was highlighted by not getting in a 20-25 goal man in the summer. That is a decision which may ultimately cost him.
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Postby eds » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:58 am

Changing Rodgers won't make a difference at all with the current players we have as we need to invest in our squad all over again.

If Rodgers stays then he still needs to be backed with money. The problem is that none of us know who is making all these calls on the dross we have brought in recently. All we know is we have overspent on too many average players and we have gone nowhere. It will be very interesting to see what happens over the summer because if Rodgers is fired we have a small indication that he actually did have a significant say on who was brought in but if these transfer committee boffins are given the chop then we know they played a larger role on player acquistions than first thought. My personal feeling is its both parties, so the owners could ultimately get rid of anyone involved during this shambolic period of player acquistions.

If this club has any hope of catching the top 4 we need to ditch this obsession of buying youth (Moreno, Markovic, Manquillo, Can, Origi, Luis Alberto, Ilori, etc) and stop gaps (Ballotelli, Lambert, Lallana, Toure, Aspas etc), it simply hasn't worked. We need to strengthen our starting XI and buy players that are either in their peak years or just on the cusp of it. The problem is that these players tend to be expensive, especially midfielders and strikers. And the owners have made it very clear that they want this club to be sustainable, making a profit year in year out and not spending beyond its means. So where does that leave us?

In order for this strategy to have any hope of working you actually need world class scouts at the club spotting players like Xabi Alonso, Sami Hyppia, Luis Suarez, etc in other leagues. Very, very hard to do, but it can be done. Just look at how successful Athletico Madrid have been recently in La Liga and CL with their budget and shrewd purchases. On top of this WE NEED TO KEEP OUR BEST PLAYERS (and not sell them at the first opportunity). And if we do, at least replace them with quality. That's where this club is falling down at the moment, by selling Suarez last summer and it looks like Sterling could go this summer. Athletico has continually coped by having to sell its better players like Torres, Aguero, Falcao, Costa, etc but they have replaced these players with continued quality NOT KIDS or STOP GAPS.

I'm pretty sure that someone like Klopp would understand this mentality, I'm not too sure about Rodgers.
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Postby red till i die!! » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:36 am

For me they changed their original plans when he got the job. He wouldn't work or wasn't interested in the job under those circumstances like working under van gaal. He dug his feet in and got what he wanted so for me he is 80% responsible and I don't need to see him in the job for another year to realize that things won't change as long as he is here.
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Postby LFC1990 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:07 pm

Rodgers has no respect from players thats the bottom line.

We have recruited 20m players playing like ***** and its accepted.

The Gerrard sentiment cost us too many games this year and it was only until disaster hit we looked to change things.

Sterling will continue to make a mockary of our club and show it no resoect in the slightest and still get piced every game
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