Liverpool FC Forum

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:54 pm wrote:

devaney » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:48 pm wrote:Well let me try again because I would hate to simply overlook the truth    I selected a number of players that Rogers has been involved in buying and you have simply chosen to ignore the fact that they are beginning to look like impressive purchases. If Sturridge, Coutinho and Can are not a thinking man's footballer then I'm not sure what you are looking for?  You have waxed lyrical on numerous occasions about the bewildering skill that Coutinho displays on a regular basis and yet you fail to give Rogers one single ounce of credit for this. £8.5m from Inter Milan was up there with some of the best buys this century !! They had written the lad off and yet we have developed him into something very special. 

Simply subscribing to the view that Suarez would have succeeded anywhere is the easy option. He was under a ban when he arrived at Anfield. It took him time to settle. It needed the management skills of the owners, Rogers and some highly skilled "head" specialists to get him through the Evra debacle. The fans also played no small part. But lets just forget all that and the important part that Rogers played and simply believe that he could have done it all by himself. I'm sorry mate you generally make a reasonable amount of sense but as I eluded to you are stretching the boundaries of your dislike for Rogers a tad too far. I agree that he has his shortcomings but not to the extent that I overlook areas where he has succeeded.

Dev I decided against the debate to who exactly Rodgers procured, because no one really knows which of those players were money ball purchases on behalf of the
committee or indeed Rodgers buys ....In truth I think your overinflated appraisal of Rodgers also belies your once keen perception of what's best for the club.

I could also highlight how passionate you've been in the past  about the club you no doubt love ,and how recently its been lost in a haze betwixt your defence of Rodgers and this need to extol the man as the future of this club ....As for this never giving Rodgers any credit ,then I think you will find you're incorrect in that assumption.

I have often used my opening post with the words' kudos to Rodgers' when the display demanded it ,and conversely I am never retiring in covering my dislike for the
man and I'm honest enough to admit it as such ,in more simplistic terms I just don't like the fella ,but implying it clouds my judgement on this great institution I
have carried with me since I was first dumped in the boys pen is ludicrous ,but if that makes it easier for you mate then you go ahead.

One question for you ,if Rodgers had been in charge through the Suarez /Evra incident do you honestly believe he would have proffered the same depth of support
as Dalglish did even to the detriment of his own longevity at the club 

RBG the question regarding Kenny is irrelevant. Lets face it Kenny could probably blow up a kids school and rape a few nuns and most of the Kop would still idolise him !! One thing is for certain Kenny did not get the best out of Suarez and I certainly don't know the exact reason for that. Was it Suarez? Not sure. One thing is however cast in stone and that the arrival of Coutinho and Sturridge (whoever bought them) were a major turning point for Suarez and indeed Liverpool.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:56 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:23 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:42 pm wrote:Sell him and buy Veratti with the money. Ibe is going to be better than Sterling anyway.


                                   Mingolet

                  Can            Skrtel          Sakho

    Ibe                Lucas (c)        Veratti            Markovic

                         Coutinho        Origi

                                  Sturridge

That side would go close to the title imo.

Seriously 

Yes seriously, as I said the side we have now would be challenging for the title if we would have started the season with a back 3 and Lucas at DM. We have been at the top of the form table for months.

No way would that side push for a title yakka 
Markovic is in and out of the side so much that most of next season will be the one where he has to bed himself in, therefore I would expect him to have another one similar to this. Ibe has played 10 games and no way is he a starter. Origi is going to get some shock when he lands here and gets to grips of whats expected of him. Verratti is a decent player but still very young, I would be encouraged by the fact that he plies his trade at a high level but no way is he coming here. Psg won't let him go and if they do we will have to pay above the odds just like we did with sakho.

Far too much inexperience in that side along with quality to challenge for a league. You also assume sturridge is going to stay fit again and while he might not suffer another 6 month lay off he will be gone several times.
I know our haul of points does put us ahead in the form table but some of those games were ropey enough.

It wouldn't matter to some on here how our season would go. We could be out of everything but manage to put together a ten game winning streak at the end of the season and we are going to do wonders in the next. Its called getting carried away and I'm surprised you would get sucked into that. Especially after last season's false dawn.

RTID I stand by what I said mate, if we would have started this season with a back 3 (instead of that back 4 we had marshalled by Lovren) and with Lucas at DM instead of Gerrard I think we'd be competing for the title now.
It's alright saying we've scraped a few results in our good run but show me a side that hasn't done that, Chelsea have been getting praised all season for being 'efficient' and just doing enough to get by teams and United have been downright lucky.
We've also had games like the Arsenal one at home where we haven't got what our performance deserved so it works both ways.
If we had another 10 points we'd be 3 points off the top and right in the mix for the title now, in fact even if we had another 6 points we'd be in a title race.
Look at some of the teams we dropped points to early on in the season -

Villa (lost at Anfield)
Hull (drew at Anfield)
Newcastle (lost away from home)
Crystal Palace (lost away from home)
Sunderland (drew at Anfield)
West Ham (lost away from home)

All of those sides are in the bottom half of the table and we collected 2 points from a possible 18.

devaney » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:02 pm wrote:
RBG the question regarding Kenny is irrelevant. Lets face it Kenny could probably blow up a kids school and rape a few nuns and most of the Kop would still idolise him !! One thing is for certain Kenny did not get the best out of Suarez and I certainly don't know the exact reason for that. Was it Suarez? Not sure. One thing is however cast in stone and that the arrival of Coutinho and Sturridge (whoever bought them) were a major turning point for Suarez and indeed Liverpool.

How can it be irrelevant when its a pointer towards Rodgers delivering his usual insensible reactions to criticism ,I personally think he would have pandered to the media.
I'm absolutely certain there would have been no campaign for Suarez's innocence ,or the death stares' The King' threw out when someone in the media dared to question
his stance.....I like a manager that knows when to circle the wagons and protect their players at all costs ,its what used to make supporting this great club so special and
unique ,the media never understood the level of support for Rafa it completely confounded them ,try as they might they simply never got him ,but they get Rodgers ...Go
figure     

So do you honestly believe (with particular emphasis on honesty) the same level of support for his player would have come from Rodgers ?

RBG No I don't and the point that you make is probably highlighted by the fact that I don't always listen to Rogers. I'm no fan of some of the garbage he spouts. It is one of his weaker areas. Having said that listening to some of Kenny's one line rebuffs didn't always work for me either if I'm going to be honest. Rogers is a relatively young manager and has a lot to learn. Rightly or wrongly perhaps I'm prepared to give him a little more time than some. As for Rafa it is true to say that not everybody shares your enthusiasm for the guy. Rafa had six years at Liverpool and did some amazing things but towards the end of his tenure it wasn't working and not doubt the H & G debacle didn't help. Was the football that Rafa played always enjoyable to watch? No it definitely wasn't but he did on occasion manage to get results with what he had available to him. He will be remembered for nearly winning the league. Rogers will possibly be remembered for losing it and that is the difference. Coming second has done Rogers more harm than good in the eyes of some supporters. The fact that Gerrard and the team seriously messed up is simply overlooked. If we fail to secure a CL place for next year it will be down to Rogers and Gerrard's idiotic performance against United will simply once again be ignored.

Yes Rogers has his shortcomings but they are nothing like as serious as some fans claim !! Some of the football that Liverpool have played over the last two seasons has been the most entertaining for a very long time. Perhaps thats just down to his assistants 

I absolutely loved Benitez mate ,and I don't think I've ever disguised the level of my adoration ,the man was a complete legend ! In his time at Liverpool he evolved
into the nemesis of both Mourinho and Taggart ,and I don't think Mourinho will ever forgive him for the manner he exposed his tactical flaws to the extent of knocking
a seemingly all conquering Chelsea team in their ' pomp' out of Europe 'twice' with almost an arrogant shrug of inevitability.

I mean don't get me wrong here ,I would love to feel the same heightened sense of anticipation I experienced when Rodgers first took the reins ,but back then he carried himself like a Liverpool manager and sounded like one ,and if I'm still being honest that's what galls me the most ,the fact I was taken in by this subterfuge.

I kind of envy (still being honest ) your faith in the man ,but for me he severed his affinity with the fans he supposedly serves with his attitude towards our two European
campaigns ,I used to eagerly await his interviews and read every word written about him ,now I turn the sound down and turn the respective page.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:53 pm wrote:RTID I stand by what I said mate, if we would have started this season with a back 3 (instead of that back 4 we had marshalled by Lovren) and with Lucas at DM instead of Gerrard I think we'd be competing for the title now.
It's alright saying we've scraped a few results in our good run but show me a side that hasn't done that, Chelsea have been getting praised all season for being 'efficient' and just doing enough to get by teams and United have been downright lucky.
We've also had games like the Arsenal one at home where we haven't got what our performance deserved so it works both ways.
If we had another 10 points we'd be 3 points off the top and right in the mix for the title now, in fact even if we had another 6 points we'd be in a title race.
Look at some of the teams we dropped points to early on in the season -

Villa (lost at Anfield)
Hull (drew at Anfield)
Newcastle (lost away from home)
Crystal Palace (lost away from home)
Sunderland (drew at Anfield)
West Ham (lost away from home)

All of those sides are in the bottom half of the table and we collected 2 points from a possible 18.

Problem is Yakka our early season form or lack of it wasn't just down to having a back 4 instead of 3, BR's whole tactics and team selection were killing us. We all know we have been on a great run since Christmas but what happened early season has put us in a very precarious position regarding getting back into the CL and not forgetting our abysmal European escapades. If BR it to get all of the plaudits for our results this year then equally he take the flack for us being in this position and not beating the likes of the teams you mentioned where we could have been challenging or at least safely in the top 4 and before anyone says it I don't buy the ' trying to incorporate new players and such' issues as other teams such as Southampton blooded new players but results didn't fall off a precipice.

Here's my take on a few points and how Rodgers is playing a part in it.

1)3-4-3 - the reason why our season picked up ?
2)Sterling
3)Balotelli, Lambert, Marquilo, Lovern, Markovic
4)Sturridge

1)3-4-3 (or any variation of this 3 CB formation) - Was the switch to this formation the reason for our good form from  January to March 2015 ? If we had played this formation from the beginning of the season would we have won more games and be among top 4 ?Well.... If gerrard was playing as the deepest midfielder (like how he was deployed earlier in the season), would we have still win all those games we should have won (against the likes of villa, hull, sunderland, leicester) in this formation ? That's the answer. Its not the formation. It is Rodgers finally taking out gerrard from the holding DM role. Once Lucas comes in (and has a more mobile partner) with a run of games...suddenly our defence looks better. I am not saying this formation doesn't work at all. It surprised a few teams. But lately teams have been able to counter against this formation.

It is just that apart from Lallana, does this formation even benefit most of our team ? Skrtel and Sakho would still be a pretty good CB pairing if they had lucas (or can/allen) in front of them regardless of the formation. Coutinho can still function in a midfield or front 3. Markovic is lost in this formation. Sturridge is so f**king isolated in this formation. Balotelli and Lambert can't function as a lone striker in this formation. We don't have wingbacks who can attack and defend in this formation. Can is being targeted via high crosses in this formation (and his performance have dropped off in the last few games). So why the f**k do we continue to play this stupid A$$ formation. We just don't have the players to really make this formation work.


2)Sterling - You pick a 20 yr old kid as a striker when we have borini, balotelli and lambert. All these players are earning more than sterling. But Rodgers keeps picking sterling. What do you think will happen ? He is gonna be pi$$ed off that that he is earning much lesser than those 3 players. He is also gonna think he is better than those 3 strikers combined when he is being picked ahead of them. Add in a money hungry agent and then can you be really surprised with the events in the last week ?

Yes, we should not have bought lambert and balotelli if Rodgers wanted his strikers to press. But couldn't Rodgers have come out with another game plan/tactic to ensure that our recognized strikers are able to contribute to the team ? A striker will always score goals if they are given chances. Sterling is not a natural striker. Yes he works hard. Yes he presses non-stop. But you see the type of air-shots, weak-shots he hits at the GK and have to wonder how many goals would have lambert and balotelli scored if the team was set-up to play to their strengths.

Rodgers set up the team to play to gerrard's strength. He set up the team to play both coutinho and lallana (yes this 3-4-3 formation is meant to play both of them behind the striker). If he had spent half that time trying to set-up the team to play to our strikers (they are the ones who will get goals for us to win games), we would have done better. But no. Rodgers thinks the worldie goals from hendo, coutinho and lallana will get us through this season. He is dead wrong.

3)Balotelli, Lambert, Manquilo, Lovern, Markovic - I mentioned about the team not being setup to play to our striker's strength in the above paragraph. It also looks like our other summer signings are are not being utilized properly either. We keep playing gerrard in front of lovern and shatter all his confidence. Manquilo looked pretty solid as a RB (yes, he had some bad games....but he is young. and he had more good games than bad).  But the wingback role does not suit him. Markovic is a winger or a number 10 but he gets thrown in as a wingback. We even push Can to the back where he looks more and more uncomfortable with team targeting him as a weak-link in the team. So most of our summer signings don't fit into the formation the coach wants us to play .... So what do we do...continue playing this stupid a$$ 3 CB formation (which is getting found out more and more in the last month or so) ? We buy a $hitload of players and the coach does not use tactics/formation to get the best out of them.


The reason for our run was getting rid of gerrard from the DM role, giving Lucas a run of games, giving Sakho a run of games, putting more muscle in the team (Can, Lucas, Hendo). If Rodgers drops his ego (why does he have a huge ego when he has won nothing in his managerial career) and picks a formation which benefits the team (so that real striker like balotelli & lambert play in their correct role, real wingers like markovic, ibe and sterling play in their correct positions......), our run can continue till the end of the season.

4)Sturridge - All I heard was wait till sturridge is back. Then everything will look even more brighter. Well they were half right. Yes we look more potent when sturridge is back. Its no rocket science. He is our best striker. But then he gets the same service as balotelli and lambert got before him. He doesn't press as much as sterling or suarez did. And he looks so f**king isolated upfront like how our other 2 strikers did. So again...this stupid a$$ formation does not play to sturridge's strength either. Stu the red actually made a good call on sturridge. He mentioned that Sturridge pressed a lot last season because suarez was doing it. And with suarez gone, he was not gonna do it as he was the main man. And boy was STU right.

It seems the key to be successful under Rodgers is for our players to press throughout the game. We press the opposition and make thing uneasy for them....then we seem to play well. If our players don't do this ....and all our play goes out of the window. The question to ask .....is this a good way to set up the team ?

Yes, in a theory if we press more than the opposition we are more likely to win. But we are threading on a thin line here. The premier league is the fastest in the world. With pressing tactics deployed, our players are gonna get injured as badly as how Dortmund players have done so in the past. And by playing mid-week games (Europe and Cups) the players won't really be able to do this for a run of games. And with Rodgers being an anti-rotation dinosaur who uses 2 subs most of the time (god I wish rafa was here), is this any wonder why we struggle to compete in multiple fronts with Rodgers at the helm ? I am pretty sure a competent manager would have done well with balotelli and lambert as our strikers.

Rodgers just does not get it. We need goals to win games. Packing the team with players who are not ruthless in front of the goal is just a recipe for mid-table mediocrity.

Anyway...this is a long rant. I do hope to god we win at the emirates.  But history has shown that Rodgers really struggles against the gunners at their turf. He is probably gonna play sterling as a lone striker (between the lines......one of his fav catchphrases) supported by 2 attacking midfielders. Sterling will press as much as possible and hit a lot of airshots. So if Hendo or Coutinho don't hit a worldie strike......we probably will get our a$$es handed out to us.

But I still hope we win though.

I was reading in the Echo that Rodgers has warned the club about a talent drain, he's saying it's all very well and good a club buying young players and improving them but if they keep on leaving just as they reach their prime then the club will continually find itself back at square one.
He said its a fact that most successful teams have an average age of 28/29 while our average age is around 23/24 but he also said that is the model this club has chosen to use and they are the cards he has been dealt.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has thought of doing one himself, it must be tempting to manage a club who have almost limitless resources and fans who would appreciate his style of football instead of spoilt whiny ********.
To publically question the owners moneyball philosophy (even in an oblique manner like that) he must be getting a bit p1$$ed off.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:39 am wrote:I was reading in the Echo that Rodgers has warned the club about a talent drain, he's saying it's all very well and good a club buying young players and improving them but if they keep on leaving just as they reach their prime then the club will continually find itself back at square one.
He said its a fact that most successful teams have an average age of 28/29 while our average age is around 23/24 but he also said that is the model this club has chosen to use and they are the cards he has been dealt.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has thought of doing one himself, it must be tempting to manage a club who have almost limitless resources and fans who would appreciate his style of football instead of spoilt whiny ********.
To publically question the owners moneyball philosophy (even in an oblique manner like that) he must be getting a bit p1$$ed off.

The prospect of losing sterling, having to deal with the lost of Suarez after a close title fight, the club not being able to bag the main targets in the summer, Sanchez, Cavani etc, probably is getting to him. It's like after a step forward, it's two steps back. I think all is not too well between BR and the owners or the transfer committee...

Can again looked uncomfortable at the back.
Sterling looked woefully isolated upfront.
Hendo shifted to the right to accommodate this stupid a$$ formation.

Rodgers has to understand this formation does not work anymore. He has been found out. Go back to 4-3-3 or a diamond with balotelli and sturridge uptop.

And he has to quit blaming the recruitment team. He has frozen out players like balotelli & lambert who have enough experience to score goals. He insists on playing sterling as a striker because he can press.

You know what ....f**k it. Hope Rodgers just goes at the end of this season. He had a squad and he massively underperformed by picking wrong players and tactics which does not suit most of our players.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:39 am wrote:I was reading in the Echo that Rodgers has warned the club about a talent drain, he's saying it's all very well and good a club buying young players and improving them but if they keep on leaving just as they reach their prime then the club will continually find itself back at square one.
He said its a fact that most successful teams have an average age of 28/29 while our average age is around 23/24 but he also said that is the model this club has chosen to use and they are the cards he has been dealt.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has thought of doing one himself, it must be tempting to manage a club who have almost limitless resources and fans who would appreciate his style of football instead of spoilt whiny ********.
To publically question the owners moneyball philosophy (even in an oblique manner like that) he must be getting a bit p1$$ed off.

He is full of it yakka. Carragher said last week when he was having a pop at raheem that rodgers had said to him before that while he was at chelsea he thought young players get too much money and it ruins them and he wouldn't let that happen here. I am willing to bet that a lot of stuff like this was in his dossier that landed him the job in the first place.

He has a say in the players and even the experienced ones he did buy are useless or on their last legs. We gave southampton 50 fecking million and not one of them is a starter. none of them even made the squad today. When he first got the job he had the cheek to have a go at the way we spent money before and vowed not to repeat it but he did exactly that and not in one window either. All he does is bull shyte his way from one situation to another.

I would appreciate his style of football    at least the one that he spoke about 3 years ago. Now we are so removed from that and play kick and rush to the fast fella. There is no balance or even players that suit anything that he talks about. He is winging it    and when things fall apart he blames his tools.

I certainly wouldn't be mourning him if he got the boot or decided to jump ship and you would be deluded if you think that he will walk into a bigger job and be a success.

Well you lot might just get your wish, City are 4th and I think they'll definately be changing manager this summer. Everyone in football bar a few whiners in our fan base has admired the job Brendan has done here (especially the style of football) and I think City will come calling this summer. Their fans certainly want him.
The prospect of an open chequebook and signing players in order to win trophies instead of making a profit down the line may just tempt him.
Then the fun and games will really start.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:38 pm wrote:Well you lot might just get your wish, City are 4th and I think they'll definately be changing manager this summer. Everyone in football bar a few whiners in our fan base has admired the job Brendan has done here (especially the style of football) and I think City will come calling this summer. Their fans certainly want him.
The prospect of an open chequebook and signing players in order to win trophies instead of making a profit down the line may just tempt him.
Then the fun and games will really start.

Rodgers had so much problem handling big-name players like balotelli, sahin...etc.

You really think he can handle the yaya, kompany's... of the world ?

Rodgers can be a good manager but he has to surround himself with great coaches. Difference between Fergie and Wenger. Fergie always surrounded himself with the best attacking and defensive coaches with European experience. Wenger surrounds himself with ex-players. Guess who has been more successful ? FWIW, I do think Wenger is the better coach compared to fergie.

Rodgers is not going to learn fast enough. He is doing the exact same mistake he did last season (insists on continuing  a formation/tactic which has been found out)

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Apr 4th, '15, 17:38 wrote:Well you lot might just get your wish, City are 4th and I think they'll definately be changing manager this summer. Everyone in football bar a few whiners in our fan base has admired the job Brendan has done here (especially the style of football) and I think City will come calling this summer. Their fans certainly want him.
The prospect of an open chequebook and signing players in order to win trophies instead of making a profit down the line may just tempt him.
Then the fun and games will really start.

Style of football!  why did he revert back to his old rubbish football at the start of the season and not do anything to change it until Christmas? that is what hurt LFC. Poor management.  The run of games he won, yes, great, what has that achieved now!! the season started in August not Christmas but BR probably forgot that because he seems to think that is when LFC's season starts.

FSG are still conducting a top down review of everything at LFC and are still looking at bringing in a DoF. If BR accepts working under a Dof, he may be given one more chance? if not, he'll be gone anyway (becuasse 4th and FA cup won't cut it). Only hope is that FSG stay well away from the likes of Klinsman and Bruce Arena cause they are just as terrible.