Liverpool FC Forum

andy_g » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:20 pm wrote:

only me » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:01 pm wrote:The best we can hope for is getting BACK to CL and maybe a shiny cup.

Proportion lads.

champions league football and the FA cup? well, i guess somehow we'd just have to find a way to live with that.

I think the point he's making is that we were already in the CL this year and did nothing with it. We had all the Suarez money to have a go at competing but we failed. It's worth asking what will be different next year with less money to spend. But first we need to finish in fourth place or higher.

i don't normally like to repost, but i'm feeling lazy so i'm copying in here what i put in the mario thread. its more appropriate that its in here anyway..;

as disappointing, and at times even embarrassing, as it was i think we need to cut the manager some slack over the european campaigns, mate. he's a young manager and he's never been in that situation before or anything even like it. he hasn't had to manage a big team through a complex fixture schedule with vastly different styles of play and tactical demands. what we have seen though is that in the league he is prepared to learn by his misatkes and make changes, and bold ones at that. he took a while to fix the shambles at the back but who else here would have thought that a weird 3-4-3 with Can at the back would have liberated our midfield and attack while making the keeper less vulnerable? who would have thought that instead of signing a superstar in january, bringing back a youngster from loan would have reinvigorated the team so much?

the personal traits that some people get hung up on are more than petty in my opinion, and down to people just cultivating their own dislike. but in footballing terms i think we need to keep the faith with this guy. he's young, he's still learning, but he has us playing the best football in ages with or without suarez and with or without gerrard. whether its CL or europa we will deffo be back in european competition next season and i'll bet you he won't be making the same kind of mistakes again.

only me » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:01 pm wrote:What i don't understand with all the "reborn BR supporters" is what is the reason for the change? The fact we beat City and are still contending for the 4th place which gives us a shot at CL football which we are already PART OF THIS YEAR? Should we count our chickens again? Sanity check maybe to get some prespective? We are out of CL football ,Europa league football all in it's very early stages ,we are out of one domestic cup and we were out of the title race in it's very early stages nuff said? BR lost one player (yes a mega star) which he knew he would lose and in return got a shiits loads of money to buy whatever he wants how did this play for us? add to it the farce of the first half of the year which consisted of pathetic tactics ,player selection ,game management ,stubbornness and much more...

We are playing great football at the moment (which he still managed to get our a$$$ kicked in Istanbul) but we are miles away from our year target. The best we can hope for is getting BACK to CL and maybe a shiny cup.

Proportion lads.

Its not just the fact that we lost Suarez, it's the fact we've had to intergrate 5/6 new players. You have to give Rodgers credit for this  Yes, we knew we were losing Suarez, but what we have done is sured up at the back and introduced a hoast of new people. We're on the verge of reaching the FA Cup semi's and made the league cup semi's.  The Champions League was extemely poor and on Thursday we had a load of chances to finish them off.


It was dissappointing to not be in the title race but in the context of things we are within touchhing distance of 3rd and are since Christmas the best team in the league.

Goo post Andy, I read somewhere today that in the 3 seasons BR has been in charge we have only lost 4 games from January which is an excellent record, makes it even more strange as to why he changes tactics at the beginning of the season.

andy_g » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:06 pm wrote:i don't normally like to repost, but i'm feeling lazy so i'm copying in here what i put in the mario thread. its more appropriate that its in here anyway..;

as disappointing, and at times even embarrassing, as it was i think we need to cut the manager some slack over the european campaigns, mate. he's a young manager and he's never been in that situation before or anything even like it. he hasn't had to manage a big team through a complex fixture schedule with vastly different styles of play and tactical demands. what we have seen though is that in the league he is prepared to learn by his misatkes and make changes, and bold ones at that. he took a while to fix the shambles at the back but who else here would have thought that a weird 3-4-3 with Can at the back would have liberated our midfield and attack while making the keeper less vulnerable? who would have thought that instead of signing a superstar in january, bringing back a youngster from loan would have reinvigorated the team so much?

the personal traits that some people get hung up on are more than petty in my opinion, and down to people just cultivating their own dislike. but in footballing terms i think we need to keep the faith with this guy. he's young, he's still learning, but he has us playing the best football in ages with or without suarez and with or without gerrard. whether its CL or europa we will deffo be back in european competition next season and i'll bet you he won't be making the same kind of mistakes again.

I'll let BR complete the work he is doing this season before posting again but the mistakes he made are unrelated to European competitions ,his original "sin" of disastrous team building came to bite us in the a$$ on all fronts Domestic and others ,his bizarre player selections and signings keep hunting us to this very moment. Releasing Ibe on loan was ridicules in the first place and what made even more pathetic was signning of another "virgin" Young player in the form of Marco (and paying funny money as well)...Signing million of CB's just to rely on old timer Toure and CM Can...Not signing even ONE quality striker and the list goes on and on....But yes the team looks great due to very late recognition of the mistakes he made and due to some luck (SG injury is one).

And here is my biggest critic of BR ,this season was supposed to be the turning point in LFC present and future ,it had to be our exclamation point that we are back as a force to be reckoned with ,if we finish outside the CL and with no trophies this whole project might be in jeopardy. BR has huge responsibility on his shoulders and he handled it very very poorly.

You know what? Times have changed. We're not the force we once were. We all know that. But what some here consider to be mediocre achievements, others see to be great successes and start gloating to those that expect more, trying to ridicule us for thinking we should be aiming higher. In the current atmosphere in the club then yes, fourth place and a decent FA Cup run might be considered a decent return to some. But it's not to me. It's ok. And should the team qualify for the CL and win the FA Cup, I'll be chuffed. Of course I will. I've supported the team through thick and thin all my life whilst surrounded by Geordies, mackems and the miscellaneous glory hunters who opt for Manure.
But I remember winning leagues, cups both domestic and abroad. We've been blessed with great players and great managers. I understand the need for optimists to provide counter opinions to pessimists and vice-versa, but under the opinions, the facts remain the same. 4th place is the very minimum we should achieve considering the money spent on the squad. And people are saying BR is potentially world class, so hopefully he'll soon set his sights higher than fourth too.
All this clapping and back slapping because we might just get fourth and qualify for the CL that we crashed so hopelessly out of this year. The perspective is totally wrong. So let's hope BR can claw us back into the CL, and let's hope that if and when he gets another shot at it he does MUCH better than he did the last time.

Well...hats off to The Brodge for finding the right formation, getting the best out of the players and turning our season around. Not trying to sound negative at all but the first half of the season really did us in, so we have some catching up to do...but I'm impressed with the turnaround so far   

I dont think there's any denying that we where a shambles in the champions league and after so long out of it that was hugely disappointing.
However if we can make the top 4 again this season and win the FA cup it will have been a brilliant season.
Lets not forget that we have struggled to reach the champions league most seasons in recent history so getting there again would be progress.
The criticism of Rodgers early in the season was warranted though. He Took too long perservering with a system that wasnt suited to the players we had and it cost us dearly.
If we can continue this form for the rest of the season and into the next though we will be challenging again for premiership.
That for me is a huge progress and it's exciting times.

Brendan is either a genius or lucky. An example of the perspective I'm hoping for would be the Mignolet thing. For a long time posters here questioned his inclusion in the team. They questioned why another 'keeper wasn't bought as cover or to challenge his position/keep him in his toes. Eventually BR sees it and drops Simon, bringing in the very average Brad Jones. Jones gets injured, forcing BR to call in Migs again, and people laud it! Great man management right? Uh, no. Not really.

Then comes Gerrard who I've defended all season long. Others said he's past it, he's holding the team back. BR didn't agree. Gerrard gets injured, performances and results improve fans say 'well done Rodgers'.

That's just two of many such cases. I honestly don't see why people rate him as a manager. A coach, yes, but as manager?

I guess it was lucky that he just stumbled on the 3-4-3 formation, I guess he's also really lucky that we've won 6 of the last 7 and unbeaten in 2015 in the league.

Two of many other cases. I definitely rate him as a manager. He's still learning yes - and champions league shows that. He guided us to 2nd last year exceeding most peoples expectations, now after a poor start, he's starting to prove that it wasn't a one season wonder.

Redman in wales » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:43 pm wrote:I guess it was lucky that he just stumbled on the 3-4-3 formation, I guess he's also really lucky that we've won 6 of the last 7 and unbeaten in 2015 in the league.

Two of many other cases. I definitely rate him as a manager. He's still learning yes - and champions league shows that. He guided us to 2nd last year exceeding most peoples expectations, now after a poor start, he's starting to prove that it wasn't a one season wonder.

Then I guess he's a genius because our league form is superb. Though it could be argued that with the 3-4-3 system he's finally making use of the players at his disposal more wisely and that's where credit is due, though marked down a little due to it's belatedness. I hope it continues. If he does indeed learn on the job, and he proves loyal to us should other offers come his way then we'd have a young, world class manager to lead us back to the top. I don't particularly like him but that hardly matters. If he guides us back to the top I'll gladly cheer his success.
Some people leap in here to gloat if we win on match day whilst ignoring the bigger picture. So the reason I'm hammering the point is merely for perspectives sake.

devaney » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:22 am wrote:That's good to read Eds considering the way you have castigated our owners,Rogers and the transfer committee in the past 

Haha, credit where credit is due. That's only fair mate.

Don't get me wrong Devaney there is a still a truck load that Rodgers needs to do to convince most of us he is the right man for the job. And that starts with getting us 4th, I really won't care what unbeaten streak we go if we miss out on CL this season. As a poster has already mentioned he was the one that dug a massive hole at the start of this season which he has slowly managed to dig his way out of. Let's not kid ourselves despite all of this if we miss out on the CL next season, it will be a financial catastrophe for this club and will set us back no matter how much you want to sugar-coat this with our league form after December. Which I'm sure will be the first thing the apologists start leaning towards if we miss out.

I am willing to concede that we were never going to challenge in Europe. Not after all the players we brought in and the fact that this was our first season in a number of years we were mixing it up with the big boys again. I never expected anything beyond a Round 2 exit, not even that fussed we missed out on qualifying from our group, as we were never going to go deep into the CL.

As you mentioned my stance on where I stand with our owners, manager and transfer committee in the past, hasn't changed. The major concern I still have is our player acquisitions. Of our recent transfers Can looks like a genuine quality purchase. The jury is still out on Lovren, Lallana, Balotelli and Moreno. They need another season. While Markovic and Lambert have been poor.  Manquillo has hardly been seen since the early months of this season. We can't afford another summer like this, and that is why I still feel justified that our owners, manager and transfer committee still have a lot of work to do to make us a force again. Sterling, Countinho and Sturridge still give me hope and so does this Ibe kid. Other than that we still have massive holes to fill at back with our goal-keeper, Gerrard retiring and another quality striker that will bang in goals for us. Based on the last 3-4 seasons we have definitely been more miss than hit. And I can't see us changing our strategy of buying kids anytime soon.

So don't think that I have done a 180 yet, you're the one that's getting ahead of yourself 

Lallana and moreno are poor? Lallana has been the one other than Coutinho who has been regularly creating chances for our strikers similar to the one he put on a plate for sterling (who fluffed) against city and for balotell.  5 goals and 3 assists so far is not too bad for a player who's missed the first half of the season through injury. As for moreno, I haven't seen a left back who is so versatile, effective in attack as well as defence. Lallana and moreno have been very good acquisitions IMHO.

maguskwt » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:07 am wrote:Lallana and moreno are poor? Lallana has been the one other than Coutinho who has been regularly creating chances for our strikers similar to the one he put on a plate for sterling (who fluffed) against city and for balotell.  5 goals and 3 assists so far is not too bad for a player who's missed the first half of the season through injury. As for moreno, I haven't seen a left back who is so versatile, effective in attack as well as defence. Lallana and moreno have been very good acquisitions IMHO.

Where have I said that Lallana and Moreno have been poor? 

I said the jury was still out on them.

Lallana is a good player but I feel will never be a great player or one that will command a place in our starting XI.

Moreno effective in defending OK then. If you haven't seen "another left back" be so versatile, I suggest you watch football from the rest of Europe. Players like Lahm, Jordi Alba, Fabio Coentrao, etc put Moreno in the shade. Moreno has a long way to go before he is considered universally effective in both attack and defense. A few cameos running up our flanks doesnt equate to him being "effective"........

eds » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:51 am wrote:

maguskwt » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:07 am wrote:Lallana and moreno are poor? Lallana has been the one other than Coutinho who has been regularly creating chances for our strikers similar to the one he put on a plate for sterling (who fluffed) against city and for balotell.  5 goals and 3 assists so far is not too bad for a player who's missed the first half of the season through injury. As for moreno, I haven't seen a left back who is so versatile, effective in attack as well as defence. Lallana and moreno have been very good acquisitions IMHO.

Where have I said that Lallana and Moreno have been poor? 

I said the jury was still out on them.

Lallana is a good player but I feel will never be a great player or one that will command a place in our starting XI.

Moreno effective in defending OK then. If you haven't seen "another left back" be so versatile, I suggest you watch football from the rest of Europe. Players like Lahm, Jordi Alba, Fabio Coentrao, etc put Moreno in the shade. Moreno has a long way to go before he is considered universally effective in both attack and defense. A few cameos running up our flanks doesnt equate to him being "effective"........

You chose three of the best left backs, in their prime to compare with even though Moreno is only 21.

He has room for improvement but at the rate he has improved since the start of the season there is no reason why he could not become a very good left back. I think he was a good aquisition that compliments our speed in counter attack well.