Liverpool FC Forum

The_Rock » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:33 pm wrote:

Danish Red » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:25 am wrote:
Believe in the last two months we have lost two games - one to Man UTD and the other in Tuesday night ?

Is that not a sign of rectifying early season mistakes or tactical errors ?

Too early to celebrate. Rodgers is known to revert back to problematic tactics and formations from time to time. Just watch the league cup semi finals. He reverted back to the gerrard and lucas combo in the extra-time and we lost all momentum.

Gerrard in a midfield 2 with lucas or hendo is the biggest reason for our horrendous start this season. You would have thought he would have learn his lessons.... but this is Rodgers were are talking about. Instead of substituting gerrard (who had a good 1st half...but it was quite obvious he was struggling in the 2nd half) he decided to stick him back in midfield...... 

One interesting point.....you mention our losses. Do you know whats the common theme in those loses ? Gerrard playing (or ending up playing) as a deepest midfielder....... Everyone and their dog knows it. We play gerrard as a DM...and it affects our whole team. But hey.............Rodgers seems to think it is ok though..... 

He loved Gerrard back to allow a second striker to come on to the pitch - he took a risk with the substitute

We didn't lose Tuesday because Gerrard played in the middle of the park for 15mins - we lost because of a moments of poor marking and failing to fjnish the chances we had

Same with the lose against Man UTD

Blaming Gerrard is quite laughable tbh

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:49 pm wrote:

The_Rock » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:33 pm wrote:

Danish Red » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:25 am wrote:
Believe in the last two months we have lost two games - one to Man UTD and the other in Tuesday night ?

Is that not a sign of rectifying early season mistakes or tactical errors ?

Too early to celebrate. Rodgers is known to revert back to problematic tactics and formations from time to time. Just watch the league cup semi finals. He reverted back to the gerrard and lucas combo in the extra-time and we lost all momentum.

Gerrard in a midfield 2 with lucas or hendo is the biggest reason for our horrendous start this season. You would have thought he would have learn his lessons.... but this is Rodgers were are talking about. Instead of substituting gerrard (who had a good 1st half...but it was quite obvious he was struggling in the 2nd half) he decided to stick him back in midfield...... 

One interesting point.....you mention our losses. Do you know whats the common theme in those loses ? Gerrard playing (or ending up playing) as a deepest midfielder....... Everyone and their dog knows it. We play gerrard as a DM...and it affects our whole team. But hey.............Rodgers seems to think it is ok though..... 

He loved Gerrard back to allow a second striker to come on to the pitch - he took a risk with the substitute

We didn't lose Tuesday because Gerrard played in the middle of the park for 15mins - we lost because of a moments of poor marking and failing to fjnish the chances we had

Same with the lose against Man UTD

Blaming Gerrard is quite laughable tbh

I think he is talking in terms of our many capitulations at the hands of seemingly inferior teams ,to such an extent Gerrard would leave the pitch after his stint in a
position questionably designed' for him by a manager who insisted he could be as effective as  Pirlo bereft of fashioning a solitary tackle .

Yeah its probably that ,possibly in the games before Rodgers realised the importance of a DM who can actually tackle 

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:58 pm wrote:

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:49 pm wrote:

The_Rock » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:33 pm wrote:


Too early to celebrate. Rodgers is known to revert back to problematic tactics and formations from time to time. Just watch the league cup semi finals. He reverted back to the gerrard and lucas combo in the extra-time and we lost all momentum.

Gerrard in a midfield 2 with lucas or hendo is the biggest reason for our horrendous start this season. You would have thought he would have learn his lessons.... but this is Rodgers were are talking about. Instead of substituting gerrard (who had a good 1st half...but it was quite obvious he was struggling in the 2nd half) he decided to stick him back in midfield...... 

One interesting point.....you mention our losses. Do you know whats the common theme in those loses ? Gerrard playing (or ending up playing) as a deepest midfielder....... Everyone and their dog knows it. We play gerrard as a DM...and it affects our whole team. But hey.............Rodgers seems to think it is ok though..... 

He loved Gerrard back to allow a second striker to come on to the pitch - he took a risk with the substitute

We didn't lose Tuesday because Gerrard played in the middle of the park for 15mins - we lost because of a moments of poor marking and failing to fjnish the chances we had

Same with the lose against Man UTD

Blaming Gerrard is quite laughable tbh

I think he is talking in terms of our many capitulations at the hands of seemingly inferior teams ,to such an extent Gerrard would leave the pitch after his stint in a
position questionably designed' for him by a manager who insisted he could be as effective as  Pirlo bereft of fashioning a solitary tackle .

Yeah its probably that ,possibly in the games before Rodgers realised the importance of a DM who can actually tackle 

Are we talking last season here or was it ok Gerrard playing there last season ?

Guess it was also Gerrard playing in the DM role that was at fault for Mignolet falling apart , CB's unable to defend set pieces or attacking players unable to finish chances - just a few of the other reasons for our poor start

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:45 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:07 pm wrote:Seems the apologists are not so prompt when delivering answers to pertinent questions ,I think I raised 8 in my last post ,and the response was deafening !
Needless to say, if anyone can answer even half of those queries I would be most delighted to proffer an in depth explanation in retort as to why I feel
they're  as clueless as the manager they offer their unconditional support.

I'll try and answer the questions that you posed

1. How many managers continue to play Johnson - every manager we have had since he was bought.

2. Lucas - since his injury he has looked half the player he was yet still has played 27 and 29 games respectively in the last two seasons - it's only since returning this season in November that he has started to look like a player again

3. CL - it's his first ever CL campaign and he struggled - he isn't the first manager to do so and won't be the last - he went with teams that he thought would win and they didn't - even in those games we still had chances but they weren't taken

4. Gerrard ( im guessing thats who you are talking about in regards out of position ) - BR played Gerrard in the deeper role because last season he was excellent in that role - he was superb , this year he struggled in it so Rodgers moved him further forward and Gerrard looked a better player for it

I'm not sure what the 4 other questions are hidden in the post ?

But what I will say is Rodgers is a developing manager who will make mistakes just as previous managers have done - right now we as a club has moved in since he became manager and I believe given further time we move us further on.

Firstly I stated which manager would have persisted with Johnson in such woeful form and a clear catalyst for some of our most erratic defending ?

Lucas was an obvious choice to adapt and enhance the combativeness integral to a team that looked lost when Gerrard played ,its irrelevant to imply
or base your argument around the number of games he's played.

The manner we slipped ungraciously out of the Champions League didn't just display Rodgers naivety ,it was a clear pointer to how an overinflated ego can
turn to arrogance ,I mean his mindset never altered even when it was imperative to Liverpool's progress that he fashioned a team built on his supposed
philosophy of pressing high intensity football ,the fact the first half was a complete non event diluted with stagnant football should have sounded alarm
bells even to his more ardent fans.

Gerrard was the predominant  reason we shipped a glut of goals ,regardless of his distribution to Suarez and Sturridge ,his long searching balls were his get
out of jail card ,without the potency of those two his limitations in that position are clearly defined.

Rodgers will continue to fail ,he will continue to blame everything and everyone else rather  than casting doubt on his own managerial frailties ,he's certainly
not the manager we deserve ,and I seriously doubt his much publicised blueprint for trophy winning success will ever come to fruition.

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:08 pm wrote:
Are we talking last season here or was it ok Gerrard playing there last season ?

Guess it was also Gerrard playing in the DM role that was at fault for Mignolet falling apart , CB's unable to defend set pieces or attacking players unable to finish chances - just a few of the other reasons for our poor start

Your new to this forum ,but try to implement a touch of research prior to posting ,I have never liked Gerrard in that position and have often voiced my displeasure
at his utilisation in such a demanding position as DM ,even last season ! So to answer your question ,its never been ok since he was introduced to the new role.

Rodgers doesn't have a chance does he

Has he improved us since he arrived - yes

Has he made mistakes - yes

Has he adjusted his tactics and formation when we were struggling - yes

When we do well - it's all down to the players and its a flash in the pan.

When things don't go well - when then it's the manager

Rodgers failing ? Well that depends on what your expectations are - I certainly don't see him failing

What exactly are people expectations - remembering he took over a team 7th/8th in the Prem and away from the CL in 3 years

So what are the expectations ?

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:45 pm wrote:I'm not sure what the 4 other questions are hidden in the post ?

DId I say I'd gone all covert with the questions ,I don't believe I hinted at their concealment 
Dare I say your having an ill advised  pop fella 

read it again devoid of the convenient sidestep ,I'm sure an enquiring mind like yourself can detect the said questions.

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:49 pm wrote:Rodgers doesn't have a chance does he

Has he improved us since he arrived - yes

Has he made mistakes - yes

Has he adjusted his tactics and formation when we were struggling - yes

When we do well - it's all down to the players and its a flash in the pan.

When things don't go well - when then it's the manager

Rodgers failing ? Well that depends on what your expectations are - I certainly don't see him failing

What exactly are people expectations - remembering he took over a team 7th/8th in the Prem and away from the CL in 3 years

So what are the expectations ?

You've quite clearly taken umbrage at my popping your pretty balloon 

No balloon popped - quite happy with the way things are going and very optimistic for the future

More sad that our club now has the fans that have sprung up over the last decade. Fans that have zero paitence and scream for manager changes at the first sign of trouble.

Thankfully it looks like our owners have their heads screwed on a bit more and will give him time and allow him to continue building

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:53 pm wrote:

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:45 pm wrote:I'm not sure what the 4 other questions are hidden in the post ?

DId I say I'd gone all covert with the questions ,I don't believe I hinted at their concealment 
Dare I say your having an ill advised  pop fella 

read it again devoid of the convenient sidestep ,I'm sure an enquiring mind like yourself can detect the said questions.

Read it a number of times and still can't see the 4 extra questions ?

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:49 pm wrote:Rodgers doesn't have a chance does he

Has he improved us since he arrived - yes

Has he made mistakes - yes

Has he adjusted his tactics and formation when we were struggling - yes

When we do well - it's all down to the players and its a flash in the pan.

When things don't go well - when then it's the manager

Rodgers failing ? Well that depends on what your expectations are - I certainly don't see him failing

What exactly are people expectations - remembering he took over a team 7th/8th in the Prem and away from the CL in 3 years

So what are the expectations ?

How exactly has he improved us? After almost three seasons we are currently sitting in 8th spot which is NO league improvement from his 1st season and he hasn't won anything yet?!? 

We will struggle to finish in the top 4, we all understand that but some very strange reason you don't seem to get that. Why are you ignoring the obvious?

Has he made mistakes?  He has made a long, long list of mistakes that keep setting this club back. Some tactical and management mistakes that RGB has clearly pointed out are unforgivable. His worst are in the transfer market where he has bought in either complete and utter duds or a group of young kids that have "potential". How exactly is that improving us? It's the bare minimum and it's obvious that you are happy with mediocrity.

If he HADN'T adjusted his tactics and plans back in early December, quiet simply he wouldn't be here. To laud him for something so obvious is frighteningly naive and bereft of any knowledge of the game tactically.

You sound like a broken voice recording with your "we win games because of our players, we lose games because of Rodgers" argument against people who disagree with you. Sweeping statements like that mean nothing because they can't be attributed to ANYONE specifically.

He is failing as the major consensus on this forum at the start of this season was a minimum of 4th spot (just have a look at the thread dedicated to that subject) and guess what? We currently aren't in the top 4 and will have to go on a strong run in the last 16 games to beat either Arsenal or Manure to that spot (which BTW includes cup games and European games).

Now a deviation of those expectations are clearly over to you sunshine, tell us why finishing outside the top 4 is suddenly what we should have accepted after Rodgers was given over 100m + to spend on players last transfer window?

After all according to you he ISN'T failing. 

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:01 pm wrote:No balloon popped - quite happy with the way things are going and very optimistic for the future

More sad that our club now has the fans that have sprung up over the last decade. Fans that have zero paitence and scream for manager changes at the first sign of trouble.

Thankfully it looks like our owners have their heads screwed on a bit more and will give him time and allow him to continue building

RBG is normally sound but for some reason he's sided with the knee jerk crew on this one, 4 managers in 5 years isn't quite enough for this crowd.
They'll all be singing Brendan's praises soon though, we are already a force to be reckoned with and that's without a recognised striker, now Sturridge is back we will really kick on.

Response to Eds

Is this season finished then ? I prefer to look at the final league positions - they give a better picture

He took us from 8th to 2nd - progress

Took us from mid table into the CL - progress

He has progressed the style of football we play

That's a few areas of progress so far in his short period

Who is this "we all understand" - are you talking about a handful on here ?

Just checked the poll on here on will we fjnish 4th - seems the results of that poll believe we will

I believe we will finish 4th also - which obvious am I missing ? Losing one league game in 8 league games is it ? - historically better in the second half of the season and our main striker returning from injury.

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:46 pm wrote:Response to Eds

Is this season finished then ? I prefer to look at the final league positions - they give a better picture

He took us from 8th to 2nd - progress

Took us from mid table into the CL - progress

He has progressed the style of football we play

That's a few areas of progress so far in his short period

Who is this "we all understand" - are you talking about a handful on here ?

Just checked the poll on here on will we fjnish 4th - seems the results of that poll believe we will

I believe we will finish 4th also - which obvious am I missing ? Losing one league game in 8 league games is it ? - historically better in the second half of the season and our main striker returning from injury.

Of course you prefer to look at results on what "may" come the end of the season.

Looking at the ladder now blows away any sort of argument you have.

As I said you obviously choose to ignore what's right in front of your face.

But keep telling us how well we did last season, it's such a convincing argument telling us how a one-hit wonder band led by Rodgers is the greatest the world has ever seen 

So if we don't finish 4th this season, what will your position be?

But the "ladder" - it's a table not a ladder is irrelevant right now - it's what the position is at the end of the season that counts.

Haven't ignored anything

Is our current league form not good then ?

Do we not play better in the second half of the season ( statically a fact seen in the last two seasons )

And do we not have our main striker returning right now ?

What exactly is in front of my face that I'm ignoring ?

And if we don't finish forth - nothing changes , the manager gets the chance to continue - had enough managerial changes over the last 5 years - it's time we look for stability and build. Current manager has proven he can get the team into the CL