Liverpool FC Forum

Danish Red » Jan 29th, '15, 13:57 wrote:Ok let's cut through the rubbish

Kash/Eds etc - it appears you suggest the manager isn't the person to progress us - despite the fact he has already progressed us from mid table to top 4

It appears also you have already decided this season we won't be reaching top 4 - despite us clearly showing form to move us into the top 4 over the rest of the season and history showing us to be better in the second half of the season

So if we reached top 4 do you still want the manager gone ?

And the question that is avoided - Who do you want to see as manager ?

This is getting all to tedious.......
Some of the questions being avoided are, Why did he not continue with the team playing like the 2nd part of last season? Why did it take him until now to change things, when all around him could see in plain sight that it was not working very early on in the season with his philosophy style of play? Why did he not expect LFC to challenge for the Title this season (he said "we'll be ready next season") having spent all that money?  I can tell you, the Owners were not pleased at all to hear that.

He's made promises to the Owners and failed to keep them regarding the EPL and CL. Lets wait and see what the recommendations are from the review, ok. 

I have my ideas as to who may be approached as DoF and Head Coach but I'll leave you to ponder.

And Yakka, why do you call yourself Danish Red as well? surely 1 profile is enough 

Ok I'll answer your questions

1. He tried to play the team in the same way but it's was going to be a struggle with two crucial players from that way of playing not being in the team - Suarez was key to the way we played last season , without him it was going to be a struggle

2. It's not "now" he has changed things - he changed things two months ago - he gave his first chance to work - it didn't so he swapped to a back three - so happy to give him credit for making the changes.

3. I didn't expect Liverpool to challenge for the title because we were losing a key part of last season's team , we were adding different players into the squad that would take time to settle - it's still a building phase we are doing

4. Which promises were made to the owners ?

How can you tell us the owners aren't happy - again seems to contradict what the owners said a month back

Spoken to people that work in the club and this review you are talking about - nonsense

The word around the club is the owners are happy and believe we are working well towards the target , pleased with the situation with the club and see it on good footing right now - nothing but positive feelings from top to bottom

So let's hear your names - let's hear these manager , head coach and DoF names.

Danish Red » Jan 29th, '15, 14:39 wrote:Ok I'll answer your questions

1. He tried to play the team in the same way but it's was going to be a struggle with two crucial players from that way of playing not being in the team - Suarez was key to the way we played last season , without him it was going to be a struggle

2. It's not "now" he has changed things - he changed things two months ago - he gave his first chance to work - it didn't so he swapped to a back three - so happy to give him credit for making the changes.

3. I didn't expect Liverpool to challenge for the title because we were losing a key part of last season's team , we were adding different players into the squad that would take time to settle - it's still a building phase we are doing

4. Which promises were made to the owners ?

How can you tell us the owners aren't happy - again seems to contradict what the owners said a month back

Spoken to people that work in the club and this review you are talking about - nonsense

The word around the club is the owners are happy and believe we are working well towards the target , pleased with the situation with the club and see it on good footing right now - nothing but positive feelings from top to bottom

So let's hear your names - let's hear these manager , head coach and DoF names.

Your points 1 and 2, you are making excuses for BR. Point 3, really, you didn't expect LFC to challenge for the title,  after selling just one player, be it LS or anyone else.  BR spends millions and you didn't expect LFC to go for it this season, Hmmms, that is one of the funniest things i've heard on this forum.  Yes, i guess LFC will always be in a transition, oh well, don't expect them to go for the title ever again then. instead, wait for players to settle. Do you realise that if he'd stuck with the same system he played the 2nd part of last season, (yes the players he purchased are suited to that system, that is why he brought them in, not his philosophy style), LFC would have been in a much better place right now.

Now the point is the best Managers seem to challenge for the title despite losing their ‘star’ players, so whilst you keep making excuses about selling LS etc as reason for not expecting to challenge for the title. Diego Simeone for instance has basically been selling his best players every year/season, but he still keeps them in there challenging. If you give the clubs manager vast sways of money to strengthen the team, you would have to expect them to win (at least challenge) for the title.

Do you realise that BR challenged in a year when every other team was having a bad time of it, yet he still managed to lose it. Gutted, yes, but coming 2nd is not anything to cheer about. It’s not an achievement.

Now, the first part of this season he actually goes back to his philosophy style (system). This is the system that cost LFC the EPL title last season. He then continues this rubbish in the 1st part of the season. He didn't have to, but he did anyway. He is not learning from his mistakes, mark my words, the moment he gets comfortable, he’ll revert to his philosophy style. And tbh, he should have been doing his learning of the trade in the lower tier leagues, and then, when ready, step up.  Why is he wanting to learn his trade and making massive mistakes with LFC.

You do realise that other clubs change managers often  without there being in a "transition". Look at Chelski, they change managers often enough. With BR at the helm, LFC will not challenge for the EPL or CL.  LFC might make 3rd or 4th, maybe even 5th but that is it. And when the next Owners (maybe in 2017, keep your eye out) come along, there won’t be large amounts of cash to spend, more than likely for the foreseeable future,  it will remain ‘sell to buy’.  BR had to get it spot last summer, and he didn’t do that. This season, LFC can at least clear the floor, so to speak,  with SG, KT etc  being moved on releasing some funds from wages. Potentially, even letting Borini, Aspas, Alberto, Ilori (though I’d like him to stay) even Mings being released to raise much needed funds to delve into the transfer market.

BR really doesn’t provide good scouting or good youth development. He’s messed the youth system up no end, and what of the long term prospects for LFC. LFC won’t be able to keep buying.

Bottom line is,  you are making excuses for BR, another year of transition, again. Don't forget, the Owners, whilst they have made some mistakes employing a few people, they have invested heavily, however, they above all else want LFC to be e successful. They are very much far from happy with things. Why continue with a Coach that is not good enough.

4: I mentioned this before.

  "Spoken to people that work in the club and this review you are talking about - nonsense "      well, the people you are speaking to (if at all) probably work for another club! 


I will not say anymore on this as it is getting all to tedious and boring.  Lets wait and see what happens when the review has been completed and the recommendations that come from it.

Who is Yakka and your response allows you to avoid the questions posed to you - let's hear your names

Thankfully your "view"clearly is a small minority and that the manager has the clear backing and support of the us guys on the stands week in week out

The club have been through some awful times over the last 5 years and it's great to see things moving forward

We now build the team and club - no more swapping managers every couple years - we get behind the management now and move forward as a team and club

Either people are part of it or they go

Rodgers career with the reds mirrors that of Roy Evans ,Evans took the reins from a Liverpool Legend, as did Rodgers .Evans also brought through gifted youngsters
in McManaman and Fowler and going forward we played some sumptuous football and in his first season we finished 8th ,but the progress was notable and the seasons
following we finished 4th ,3rd and 4th again ....Now Evans was a nice guy and a true gentleman but these admirable traits didn't exactly make him feared by the top
clubs ....We had a team that played some phenomenal football ,but with no propensity for defence people and pundits just paid lip service to our glorious failures

This is how I feel about Rodgers ,give me a Koeman or a Frank De Boer managers who respectively have an abundance of tactical acumen ,managers who hold the
fear factor ,and most importantly coaches who can change the course of a game with swipes of genius ...Benitez possessed the same game intelligence and he held
fast a genuine proclivity to win things.

I'd  give anything to retain the feeling I go to a game with on my return home ,and having a manager at the helm who clubs genuinely fear ,and not one that disappears
up his own arse would be a start... I mean seriously how many managers would have consistently played Johnson ,completely overlooked Lucas and persistently
play a player so out of his depth in an engineered role specifically designed to lengthen his career ,and then sit back and watch the consequences week after fucking week.

How many managers would laud our change in formation against 'Bournemouth' and then herald his own supposed genius in devising such a plan of action ,how many
managers would be so openly dismissive to such a prestigious competition as the Champion's League ,how many managers with one game to play and victory would
guarantee our progress would opt for a lone striker against fucking Basle    Why is he arguably the only manager in Liverpool's history to lambaste his own
players through the media....Why does he constantly contradict himself with every press release he makes ? 

Many,many questions for the apologists to mull over ,but for me personally the die was cast when we limped out of the finest competition in European football. 

One thing is quite clear and that is we will never move forward if we don't give a manager a chance - calling for a manager to leave every two years will get us nowhere

You can't get Koeman or De Boer in and they could have a bad two months and the calls for them to go will start

We need to give someone a full chance

BR has been manager for two and half years - in that time he has taken a team from mid table back into the CL - he had playing wonderful creative football and at times we have been breathtaking

He has made mistakes - he is young and still learning his job - the owners know that and they fully are behind the plan to move forward as a club and team

We will again make mistake in the future but we as fans require to show him paitence and backing to allow him the full chance he deserves

If we don't then we won't go anywhere - we will bounce from manager to manager floating around the table offering nothing

RBG did you want to get rid of Shankly mate when Red Star Belgrade knocked us out of the European cup in the second round after an 8 year hiatus or what about Bob Paisley when he fell at the first hurdle to the mighty Widzew Lodz?

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:24 pm wrote:RBG did you want to get rid of Shankly mate when Red Star Belgrade knocked us out of the European cup in the second round after an 8 year hiatus or what about Bob Paisley when he fell at the first hurdle to the mighty Widzew Lodz?

No Yakka surprisingly I had a genuine trust in the same names you've just proffered in defence of Rodgers  ,which if I'm being totally honest I find the comparison offensive!

Shankly and Paisley knew what inspired the fans they would never openly proffer a critique on a player or let the fans suffer the loss of faith in their respective ideals to
reap the benefit of camouflaging their own naivety and ineptness.

I'm sure you know this also ,but its less of a climb down if you associate the current manager with the limited failures of the two legends in question.

Why do people keep comparing BR to Liverpool legends? There aren't many parallels are there? Those that don't believe BR to be the great manager that he himself believes he is aren't being disloyal. Supporting Liverpool is an ethical matter, a moral matter, not blind faith in anyone who sits in the chair. Heck, if I was sat there people would sharpish want me out! Why? Because I can't do the job is why.
There are many, many valid points to be said and questions to be asked about Brendan Rodgers capacity to manage a club of LFC's stature. Most arguments for BR that I see seem to be based on nothing more than a freaky last season and a recent and slight improvement in performances. I personally have never called for BR to be sacked. I know there's much more goes on behind the scenes that we fans are aware of. Just remember though... We support LFC, not Rodgers.
Despite a recent improvement in the team I still very much doubt BR will get anywhere close to last seasons achievement which was 2nd place. Let's hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:20 pm wrote:One thing is quite clear and that is we will never move forward if we don't give a manager a chance - calling for a manager to leave every two years will get us nowhere

You can't get Koeman or De Boer in and they could have a bad two months and the calls for them to go will start

We need to give someone a full chance

BR has been manager for two and half years - in that time he has taken a team from mid table back into the CL - he had playing wonderful creative football and at times we have been breathtaking

He has made mistakes - he is young and still learning his job - the owners know that and they fully are behind the plan to move forward as a club and team

We will again make mistake in the future but we as fans require to show him paitence and backing to allow him the full chance he deserves

If we don't then we won't go anywhere - we will bounce from manager to manager floating around the table offering nothing

If I am not mistaken, this is Brendan Rodger's 4th year at Anfield and will have begun his 4th season in charge when the new season kicks off this August.He has had plenty of chances to get this rectified and still has not learned from his GK/defensive mistakes which continues to reproduce defensive errors and goalkeeping errors. BR is surely convinced himself that his long term philosophy is imminent for success despite currently close to mid table, out of the champions league and league cup with barely a chance to win the FA Cup or Europa with the squad at our disposal not forgetting his poor deployment of tactical changes and team selection this season. The biggest concern for the owners and fans like me is his inability to play players in their correct position, and fails to source high quality players with only Sturridge and Coutinho paying out dividends. We therefore blow over £210m on these players that the manager fails to get the best out of. Now not all of his signing are doomed or deemed failures. There is quite some potential in the likes of Sakho, Lovren, Moreno, Lallana, Markovic and and possibly Balotelli (not sure about Can) but that's my opinion.

Our progress since BR took over in 2012 - if you take the letter " V " and turn it upside down and represent it as a progress bar, you'll see exactly how far we have progress up until now. A peak between two troughs.

You say: "If we don't then we won't go anywhere - we will bounce from manager to manager floating around the table offering nothing" - just take a minute out and think of Wenger's current reign. 1 silverware in 9 years? Or perhaps Moyes - 10 years and no silverware nor success. I think youre looking for excuses for BR.

Seems the apologists are not so prompt when delivering answers to pertinent questions ,I think I raised 8 in my last post ,and the response was deafening !
Needless to say, if anyone can answer even half of those queries I would be most delighted to proffer an in depth explanation in retort as to why I feel
they're  as clueless as the manager they offer their unconditional support.

The question is how long do you want to give Rodgers ? This is his 3rd season. He hasn't won anything yet. With Man City, Chelsea and Southampton out of FA cup....we might have a shot at this competition. But looking at Rodger's track record in cup competitions (even going back to his previous club days).... I don't have much hope on him leading us to cup glory.

Look....I have no doubt that Rodgers will eventually (the key word is eventually) become one of the best British coaches by the next decade. The thing is...can we as a club wait for him to learn from his mistakes ? By the looks of it, he seems to be a slow learner as he keeps repeating his mistakes over and over again to ensure some players get game time.

Lets say that Rodgers learns the rope and is finally a competent manager (competent in terms of managing a team challenging for domestic and European honours).....  Is there any guarantee that he will stay with us once he gets to that stage ?

The way he "whored" himself to the Spanish press makes it so obvious .... He really thinks he will be managing one of the big 2 Spanish teams in the near future. And if you look at his track record....he does not really show any loyalty to his clubs when a bigger team comes for him (ie....he kept mentioning that Swansea gave him a job when nobody dared to hire him after he got the sack from his previous club and he would stay there to repay their faith....and the week after... he jumped ship to us. And how about promising Swansea that he won't sign any of their players...and immediately signs Joe Allen a few weeks after).

I don't really want to go into his personal life...but you guys know what he did once he became the manager of the season don't you ?

So I again reiterate......looking at Rodgers' track record, do you think we should wait for him to learn the rope at our expense ?

Football is a results driven business. Houllier, Rafa and the King won trophies within their 1st 2 seasons with us. If we don't finish 4th, he has to go.  I just can't see us winning cups under him too.

Yes, we play good football under rodgers.... But I rather win boring boring rafa style then to see us dominate teams and then proceed to drop points.

mramo » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:04 pm wrote:

Danish Red » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:20 pm wrote:One thing is quite clear and that is we will never move forward if we don't give a manager a chance - calling for a manager to leave every two years will get us nowhere

You can't get Koeman or De Boer in and they could have a bad two months and the calls for them to go will start

We need to give someone a full chance

BR has been manager for two and half years - in that time he has taken a team from mid table back into the CL - he had playing wonderful creative football and at times we have been breathtaking

He has made mistakes - he is young and still learning his job - the owners know that and they fully are behind the plan to move forward as a club and team

We will again make mistake in the future but we as fans require to show him paitence and backing to allow him the full chance he deserves

If we don't then we won't go anywhere - we will bounce from manager to manager floating around the table offering nothing

If I am not mistaken, this is Brendan Rodger's 4th year at Anfield and will have begun his 4th season in charge when the new season kicks off this August.He has had plenty of chances to get this rectified and still has not learned from his GK/defensive mistakes which continues to reproduce defensive errors and goalkeeping errors. BR is surely convinced himself that his long term philosophy is imminent for success despite currently close to mid table, out of the champions league and league cup with barely a chance to win the FA Cup or Europa with the squad at our disposal not forgetting his poor deployment of tactical changes and team selection this season. The biggest concern for the owners and fans like me is his inability to play players in their correct position, and fails to source high quality players with only Sturridge and Coutinho paying out dividends. We therefore blow over £210m on these players that the manager fails to get the best out of. Now not all of his signing are doomed or deemed failures. There is quite some potential in the likes of Sakho, Lovren, Moreno, Lallana, Markovic and and possibly Balotelli (not sure about Can) but that's my opinion.

Our progress since BR took over in 2012 - if you take the letter " V " and turn it upside down and represent it as a progress bar, you'll see exactly how far we have progress up until now. A peak between two troughs.

You say: "If we don't then we won't go anywhere - we will bounce from manager to manager floating around the table offering nothing" - just take a minute out and think of Wenger's current reign. 1 silverware in 9 years? Or perhaps Moyes - 10 years and no silverware nor success. I think youre looking for excuses for BR.

Rodger became manager in June 2012 so that makes it just over two and a half years ( two and a half seasons )

Why don't we have a chance in the FA Cup and Europa ? Think we have a great chance in the FA and good chance in Europa - this season could end up with a trophy and a top 4 slot

How can you compare someone who has had 2.5 seasons to Wenger ?! Seriously ?

You mention failure in signings in regards £210 mil then go on to say that two are a success and another load have potential - that's about £170-180mil worth of signings that have worked out or have potential to work out ?

Which players are being played out of position and its not working ?

Believe in the last two months we have lost two games - one to Man UTD and the other in Tuesday night ?

Is that not a sign of rectifying early season mistakes or tactical errors ?

Danish Red » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:25 am wrote:
Believe in the last two months we have lost two games - one to Man UTD and the other in Tuesday night ?

Is that not a sign of rectifying early season mistakes or tactical errors ?

Too early to celebrate. Rodgers is known to revert back to problematic tactics and formations from time to time. Just watch the league cup semi finals. He reverted back to the gerrard and lucas combo in the extra-time and we lost all momentum.

Gerrard in a midfield 2 with lucas or hendo is the biggest reason for our horrendous start this season. You would have thought he would have learn his lessons.... but this is Rodgers were are talking about. Instead of substituting gerrard (who had a good 1st half...but it was quite obvious he was struggling in the 2nd half) he decided to stick him back in midfield...... 

One interesting point.....you mention our losses. Do you know whats the common theme in those loses ? Gerrard playing (or ending up playing) as a deepest midfielder....... Everyone and their dog knows it. We play gerrard as a DM...and it affects our whole team. But hey.............Rodgers seems to think it is ok though..... 

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:07 pm wrote:Seems the apologists are not so prompt when delivering answers to pertinent questions ,I think I raised 8 in my last post ,and the response was deafening !
Needless to say, if anyone can answer even half of those queries I would be most delighted to proffer an in depth explanation in retort as to why I feel
they're  as clueless as the manager they offer their unconditional support.

I'll try and answer the questions that you posed

1. How many managers continue to play Johnson - every manager we have had since he was bought.

2. Lucas - since his injury he has looked half the player he was yet still has played 27 and 29 games respectively in the last two seasons - it's only since returning this season in November that he has started to look like a player again

3. CL - it's his first ever CL campaign and he struggled - he isn't the first manager to do so and won't be the last - he went with teams that he thought would win and they didn't - even in those games we still had chances but they weren't taken

4. Gerrard ( im guessing thats who you are talking about in regards out of position ) - BR played Gerrard in the deeper role because last season he was excellent in that role - he was superb , this year he struggled in it so Rodgers moved him further forward and Gerrard looked a better player for it

I'm not sure what the 4 other questions are hidden in the post ?

But what I will say is Rodgers is a developing manager who will make mistakes just as previous managers have done - right now we as a club has moved in since he became manager and I believe given further time we move us further on.