Mid Season Review

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby jacdaniel » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:50 am

First of all, I think we have been handed a really difficult set of circumstances this season.  I'm not sure any manager would have coped well.  Below are the issues that i believe have caused us problems this season. 

Suarez leaving the club. 
Sturridge getting injured for the majority of the season to date.
Having 9 players to bed in, half of them being very young players. 
Injuries and a lack of impact from our "hit the ground running signings" - Lallana, Lovren, Balotelli
A captain that dropped his head when we started performing poor (Maybe realized last season was his best chance)
A difficult fixture list  (Southampton, City and Spurs in our opening 3 games) 
Lack of confidence / loss of form from key players such as Mignolet, Coutinho
Too much responsibility too soon for new / young players - Sterling, Balo, Markovic
Players conditioned to start hitting peak form in December / Jan

When you read through this list of problems, in hindsight it seems almost inevitable that we've failed. 
What we've seen in the last game or two though is a reminder of why I want Rodgers to remain in charge.  For years we have craved an attacking football team.  We got exactly that last season.  The passing, pace, movement, intensity and pressing was immense and we battered half the sides in the league. 
Now that we are hitting some form again, the next 5 games suddenly appear to be more winnable games. 
If we were to go on a bit of a run, we'd back in the mix.

Do i think we will finish top 4?  probably not at this point.  We'd need title winning form to achieve it. 
Should finishing 2nd last season and a strong second half to this season buy the manager another season?  Absolutely.
Especially if we were to get our hands on some silverware. 

What I would like to see though, an were I find it hard to argue against other posters is: 

A fullscale review of our transfer policy.  From the scouts to the committee to Ian Ayre.  We spend too much time lowballing, missing targets and signing too many for the future players.  We need to find some balance so we can benefit in the short and long term.  If we continue to stock the squad full of 20 year olds then we just can't expect to compete for titles.  No manager can turn a team of kids into champions in this league.

Our defence is the other area that needs focus.  It looks like its time for Rodgers to reach out and ask for some help with this area of the game.  3 years is a long time to still be conceding such soft goals like the ones we did yesterday.  I hope this is something Rodgers is prepared to look at. 
A good starting point would be to get a proper goalkeeper signed.  With Brad Jones between the sticks we can forget about having any kind of success. 
I do genuinely believe though that come May we will have shown progress and hopefully bagged a trophy. 

So what are peoples thoughts on the season?  Do you agree that we've had big issues?  Do you think they could have been managed better?  What changes do you think we need to make?  Do you think the second half of the season will be successful?  If you are struggling to get behind the manager.. what does he need to do to gain your support?

If possible, try to write some of your own views on the season looking at the full picture  :D
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Postby C-R » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:00 am

Really good post mate, i am unable to follow it up with as much content, but will offer my opinions

I agree with the tough circumstances, losing Suarez and Sturridge was a massive loss, imagine taking costa and hazard out of the chavs

It has taken a lot of the new guys some time to bed in, some are now looking really good.. Lallana, Markovic for example, however the jury is most definately out on the likes of the money wasted on players like Lovren

It does look (based on the past 3 matches) that we may have turned the corner as far as attacking goes and the new formation looks like it will reap rewards, especially against some of the lesser teams

However, the defence including keeper are still very very poor  indeed, the ego of Rodgers not to get in a defensive coach is a massive blow to the club, Steve Clarke was available for months and knows the club really well, he would have been perfect to work alongside but perhaps Rodgers saw him as too much of a threat to his own job

It still remains to be seen if the owners (who have been excellent so far imo) give Rodgers more money to blow in the Januray window, but a top notch keeper (Begovic or Cech), a 'real' defensive leader/organiser, a 'real' defensive midfielder (Song or Carvalho) and a pair of strikers and i think we will be ok
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Postby Kopite-Jud » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:22 pm

Good post mate.

It is appearing that we've turned a corner and are starting to look like a top side, However, there are for me painstakingly obvious situations that have needed addressing for 24 or more months that are hurting us time and time and time again.

We've needed a goal keeper and a defensive coach for ages, until this is addressed it will be the same week in, week out.

We look brilliant and unplayable at times, (like yesterday) then all of a sudden, bang, we concede 2/3 goals in a game from some quite pathetic defending.

Get a keeper and a defensive coach in and things will soon change.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:05 pm

Excellent post jd.
Before this past week I think the mid season review could not have been anything else other than scathing, yes we've had one or two issues but the cold hard facts show that this has been our worst start in the last 50 years and let's face it there's been quite a bit of competition for that title over the last few seasons.
There could be one very significant silver lining to this terrible start though and that's the emergence of this 3-4-3 formation. It's still early days and 3 games isn't enough of a sample size to properly assess it's merits but who knows, in the future we may look back on December 2014 as a major turning point in our fortunes.
If we can rewrite the Opta record books against a side like Arsenal without a recognised striker and top keeper (not to mention our leaky defence) then there is a hell of a lot of potential there.
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Postby leeroy74 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:06 pm

Mid season thoughts...   we're weak at the back and we offer nowt up front.

basically in January...   1 top 'boss' defender, 1 top goalie and a striker that knows where the net is?

If Brendan sorts that then he's a safe man. Fail to address this and he's a dead man walking which is a shame because I like him.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:26 pm

leeroy74 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:06 pm wrote:Mid season thoughts...   we're weak at the back and we offer nowt up front.

basically in January...   1 top 'boss' defender, 1 top goalie and a striker that knows where the net is?

If Brendan sorts that then he's a safe man. Fail to address this and he's a dead man walking which is a shame because I like him.


I'm not that convinced we will buy a striker in January mate, by the sounds of it we need to sell before we can buy (or else fall foul of FFP regulations) and I think our number one priority will be a keeper not a striker.
If Sturridge comes back and stays fit any new arrivals in the striking department could end up sitting on the bench for the rest of the season and in the summer we have Origi arriving from Lille, will the club buy a new striker knowing that Sturridge is on the verge of returning and another striker is arriving in 4 or 5 months?
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Postby red till i die!! » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:31 pm

Thought a lot of the circumstances we find ourselves in is of our own doing. Not replacing suarez adequately, Relying on Sturridge to stay fit and the signing of so many players. The last one isn't really a factor as barely any of them feature anyway and no more than 2 or 3 at any one time. The other 7 or 8 in the team should be the spine of our side and well able to carry a newbie or 2 while they get up to speed. Most of the games thus far looked like we were integrating 11 new players with no leader among any of them.
Defensively we are total tosh and its always been like that under rodgers but yet he continues to ignore it and seeing as we struggle to score it's going to cost us big-time if its not addressed quickly. Toure has brought some organisation to the back and lucas some protection so they need to remain in the side that plays in the Prem. I'd settle for scabby one nil wins if it means we close games out for all 3 points.
In the last few games we have looked a better side and have upped the tempo in our play which will give us a good base to move on from. Seeing as all the new faces that have come in have struggled for the most of it you would have to think that any new signings in january will take the same road unless they are top players and not more kid's under 10 mil.
We will get a bit of respite from Europe till February and then our schedule will be up in the air again. We also have the cup ties against the chav's and if we progress in the early rounds of the F.A cup then the games will be coming thick and fast again.
Even though we aren't a mile off top 4 I'm yet to be convinced that we can put a run together that will have us storming up the table. We don't integrate enough players to compete on all fronts so for me we should have a good go at the chavs and get ourselves into the final and then concentrate on getting 4th. If that gap has somehow widened again february then throw everything at the europa to try and make it that route.
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Postby jacdaniel » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:42 pm

red till i die!! » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:31 pm wrote:Thought a lot of the circumstances we find ourselves in is of our own doing. Not replacing suarez adequately, Relying on Sturridge to stay fit and the signing of so many players. The last one isn't really a factor as barely any of them feature anyway and no more than 2 or 3 at any one time. The other 7 or 8 in the team should be the spine of our side and well able to carry a newbie or 2 while they get up to speed. Most of the games thus far looked like we were integrating 11 new players with no leader among any of them.
Defensively we are total tosh and its always been like that under rodgers but yet he continues to ignore it and seeing as we struggle to score it's going to cost us big-time if its not addressed quickly. Toure has brought some organisation to the back and lucas some protection so they need to remain in the side that plays in the Prem. I'd settle for scabby one nil wins if it means we close games out for all 3 points.
In the last few games we have looked a better side and have upped the tempo in our play which will give us a good base to move on from. Seeing as all the new faces that have come in have struggled for the most of it you would have to think that any new signings in january will take the same road unless they are top players and not more kid's under 10 mil.
We will get a bit of respite from Europe till February and then our schedule will be up in the air again. We also have the cup ties against the chav's and if we progress in the early rounds of the F.A cup then the games will be coming thick and fast again.
Even though we aren't a mile off top 4 I'm yet to be convinced that we can put a run together that will have us storming up the table. We don't integrate enough players to compete on all fronts so for me we should have a good go at the chavs and get ourselves into the final and then concentrate on getting 4th. If that gap has somehow widened again february then throw everything at the europa to try and make it that route.


I do agree with a lot of the points you make but you have to keep in mind that things didn't go to plan in the summer.  Sanchez flat out refused to join us.  Something bizarre happened with the Remy deal, still not clear on that.  Borini flat out refused to leave. 
We possibly wouldn't have been relying on Sturridges fitness so much if any of these things had paid off. 
Frustrating I know but that's how transfer windows seem to go for us and why I think a complete review of our system is desperately needed. 

As for the defence though... tosh is an understatement  :D
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Postby only me » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:58 pm

Mid-season mark is a big F. We are out of the CL ,we are a middle-bottom table team and more then anything our performance was dire to appalling in most of the games. Our last 2 games in which we looked much better saw us rescuing a draw in the dying minutes and winning against a championship team so a bit proportions lads. Our control of the ball doesn't produce real chances at goal ,still ,so the challenges are still their.

We are still missing a Marquee striker ,which everyone but BR saw before the season started ,We are still missing a quality Axe in the middle ,and no Lucas isn't the solution and Gerrard oh well we saw how that worked and now after BR assassinated Simone confidence we are missing a top keeper ,so 3 major spots missing for us to get things rolling.

Quick observation on Sanchez ,while he didn't want to play in Liverpool (or his wife didn't) i'm pretty sure another 1-2m for his payroll would have made the difference...He would have turned our season around completely. Now we spent more and got less.
But as long as the CL spot is in sight ,and some trophies are their for the taking our 2nd half of the season is a corner stone for Liverpool near term future. Just make the right decision and no more errors. Can BR do it? i doubt it he was a total failure on all aspects of managing.
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Postby eds » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:02 pm

jacdaniel » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:50 am wrote:Should finishing 2nd last season and a strong second half to this season buy the manager another season?  Absolutely.


So spending close to $220m over the last three seasons to get us to mid-table in his 3rd season is perfectly acceptable?

Absolutely..........  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

OK then   ???
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Postby eds » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:10 pm

Barcelona wanted Suarez and we wanted Sanchez as a replacement.

We should have planted our foot down at that pivotal moment and ensured that if Sanchez didn't come to us we wouldn't sell Suarez to them.

Instead we buckled and got shafted with the Suarez deal, getting nowhere near what he was worth and Sanchez joined a direct rival days later  :no

The Remy deal was the icing on the turd cake and Borini "refusing" to leave was the very cherry on top.

We don't need an "investigation" into this, Ayre and his incompetent army of monkeys need to be put in front a firing squad.  :veryangry
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:02 am

I don't think any fan can refute the fact how obstinate Rodgers was regarding the failure of our midfield when placing Gerrard in front of our back four or the inexcusable
amount of time we as supporters had to endure his inability to accept that Lucas was if only 'temporary' an immediate solution to our paucity in midfield.

I also firmly believe he frittered away an inordinate amount of time restricting our play by placing Balotelli and then Lambert in the role of lone striker ,whilst seemingly content with watching us slip down the table.....Add to that our first half complete and utter capitulation in a Champions League game we only had to win to progress !

It seems to me our progress hasn't been inspired by some divine intervention but in a manager who has been  painstakingly slow in coming to terms and rectifying his
mistakes finally arriving at somewhere between common sense and a deflated ego ...I mean the same personnel were available for the Basel game, surely the manager
could have formulated a side comparative to the one we see now ,and if the same intensity and passion had been applied we would be now awaiting Porto ?

These are all pertinent questions that however hard we try to put them to the back of our respective minds they still manage to surface when he makes decisions like
dropping Mignolet for possibly the worst (but expertly coiffeured ) stand in keeper in the Premiership  ???

I like the football we're currently playing and when Sturridge finally returns it will see a marked improvement in our potency in front of goal ,but for long periods of this
completely forgettable season the team has been absolutely hapless ,and watching the team and listening to Rodgers excuse his ineptitude has left a bitter taste in the
mouth.

When all is said and done we lost Sturridge through injury and replacing the Uruguayan was always going to be an unenviable task ,but this is why managers are paid
such salaries to cushion such blows and apply the tactics not only to alter our style of play but to change our formation to be adaptable to the rigours of this league.
It simply beggars belief how he changed practically fuck all and persisted with players so clearly not comfortable with the positions he designated them with.

Simply not good enough for a manager who professes in practically every sound bite he makes how he has the best interests of the club and it fans as priority.
The fans have been clamouring for Markovic to be thrown into the team ,the same applies for Can who still manages to be overlooked after a playing his
best game in a red shirt against Chelsea ....The truth is sometimes not kind ,but we've been screaming for the high intensity pressing football we now see
Rodgers apparently inspiring and then we're treated to ridiculous statements such as after the Bournemouth game such as those expressed below.

“The other night at Bournemouth, in an attempt to find a solution, we were playing 3-4-3. A British coach playing 3-4-3? He must have fallen on to that system by luck,” . “It might not have been that I was awake until the early hours of the morning thinking how we might do it?

“A foreign coach would be a tactical genius – playing Markovic wide, using Raheem Sterling as a free number nine, moving with penetration, playing with a box midfield and a back three – I must have just dreamt that and thrown it out there"

Still has a great deal of learning still to do in my opinion ,and a modicum of humility now that we finally look like rescuing the dwindling embers from a once dying
flame wouldn't go amiss ,I'd say our revitalisation is born more of the manager realising he is here first and foremost to put the fans first ,and to have his teams play
in the style keeping with a Liverpool manager rather than just attempting to sound like one.
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Postby Reg » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:55 am

Excellent post JD, certainly more challenging than the usual run of the mill posts of late.

First, the manager. Few successful men change their character in mid-life, experts say your character is defined by the age of 8-10 years old. Shanks early success was as a one man fireball, some of his youtube interviews are cringingly condescending and arrogant but that was never going to change and was needed to make such a dynamic change at Anfield. Bob, Fagan and Kenny inherited a proven system and therefore guided or evolved the system. Rafa was a mini Shanks and Rodgers is also a strong character - it's what we need at this stage, someone who believes in himself, we don't want a yes man. Van Gaal is no different. So whilst BR can be annoying in press conferences, he's actually quite moderate compared to Maureen, Ferguson, Clough, Shanks, Fat Sam, Ron Atkinson, Malcolm Allison types of manager.

The transfer strategy is plain annoying because 20 million doesn't buy you an impact player. End of story and until the owners change their plan, we're stuck with it.

We need 3 long term impact players, a CB to lead the defense, a CM to replace Stevie and an attacker to provide the goals. No rocket science as we had Sami, SG and Torres in the same side and that was beautiful.

So the club must modify the plan:   spend what's necessary to create the core, then bring in 20 million pound players around them who - as Suarez demonstrated, when they're paired with quality core players, play above their value.   3 average players = 3 average players. 2 average players + one core player = 4 players.

We're not out of the woods as some seem to think as we don't have those core players but the sooner we recognise our deficiencies and correct them the better.
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Postby maguskwt » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:46 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:02 am wrote:I don't think any fan can refute the fact how obstinate Rodgers was regarding the failure of our midfield when placing Gerrard in front of our back four or the inexcusable
amount of time we as supporters had to endure his inability to accept that Lucas was if only 'temporary' an immediate solution to our paucity in midfield.

I also firmly believe he frittered away an inordinate amount of time restricting our play by placing Balotelli and then Lambert in the role of lone striker ,whilst seemingly content with watching us slip down the table.....Add to that our first half complete and utter capitulation in a Champions League game we only had to win to progress !

It seems to me our progress hasn't been inspired by some divine intervention but in a manager who has been  painstakingly slow in coming to terms and rectifying his
mistakes finally arriving at somewhere between common sense and a deflated ego ...I mean the same personnel were available for the Basel game, surely the manager
could have formulated a side comparative to the one we see now ,and if the same intensity and passion had been applied we would be now awaiting Porto ?

These are all pertinent questions that however hard we try to put them to the back of our respective minds they still manage to surface when he makes decisions like
dropping Mignolet for possibly the worst (but expertly coiffeured ) stand in keeper in the Premiership  ???

I like the football we're currently playing and when Sturridge finally returns it will see a marked improvement in our potency in front of goal ,but for long periods of this
completely forgettable season the team has been absolutely hapless ,and watching the team and listening to Rodgers excuse his ineptitude has left a bitter taste in the
mouth.

When all is said and done we lost Sturridge through injury and replacing the Uruguayan was always going to be an unenviable task ,but this is why managers are paid
such salaries to cushion such blows and apply the tactics not only to alter our style of play but to change our formation to be adaptable to the rigours of this league.
It simply beggars belief how he changed practically fuck all and persisted with players so clearly not comfortable with the positions he designated them with.

Simply not good enough for a manager who professes in practically every sound bite he makes how he has the best interests of the club and it fans as priority.
The fans have been clamouring for Markovic to be thrown into the team ,the same applies for Can who still manages to be overlooked after a playing his
best game in a red shirt against Chelsea ....The truth is sometimes not kind ,but we've been screaming for the high intensity pressing football we now see
Rodgers apparently inspiring and then we're treated to ridiculous statements such as after the Bournemouth game such as those expressed below.

“The other night at Bournemouth, in an attempt to find a solution, we were playing 3-4-3. A British coach playing 3-4-3? He must have fallen on to that system by luck,” . “It might not have been that I was awake until the early hours of the morning thinking how we might do it?

“A foreign coach would be a tactical genius – playing Markovic wide, using Raheem Sterling as a free number nine, moving with penetration, playing with a box midfield and a back three – I must have just dreamt that and thrown it out there"

Still has a great deal of learning still to do in my opinion ,and a modicum of humility now that we finally look like rescuing the dwindling embers from a once dying
flame wouldn't go amiss ,I'd say our revitalisation is born more of the manager realising he is here first and foremost to put the fans first ,and to have his teams play
in the style keeping with a Liverpool manager rather than just attempting to sound like one.

A fair critique.  Don't necessarily agree with it on the reason for our upturn in performance. I do believe BR has his best intentions. Sometimes when you're that close or that involved, you fail to see things that a an outside observer may see. At least BR was trying to change. It maybe inexperience that took him this long. Remember, in his first season, he was changing around how we set up to play. The frustrations were very similar to this season. In the second half of that season, gone was the tiki taka football with us mixing it up especially because of gerrard's long range passing and suarez mobility. Things started to improve. And in the beginning of the second season, he was still tweaking the team, grinding out 1-0 wins, drawing with Swansea and even losing to Southampton. Only after that we started firing on all cylinders. So I don't honestly believe that he is too stubborn to change. It's been a tough learning experience for him.
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Postby maguskwt » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:52 am

On a side note, the most fatal mistake now would be to sack the manager and bring in a new one. It takes time to build good sides for long term, which seems to be what the owners want. You need to learn how to fail in order to succeed as a team.
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