Job too big for Rodgers?

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Is the job too big for Rodgers and last season was a flash in the pan down to Suarez carrying us?

Yes
43
55%
No
28
36%
Not sure
7
9%
 
Total votes : 78

Postby Doeboy » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:59 am

Kopite-Jud » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:34 pm wrote:Klopp's name is flying around in the papers, but Dortmund are doing worse than us domestically. :rasp


I do wonder about Klopp. I mean he lost his main man Lewandowski, just like Rodgers lost Suarez and suddenly its gone tits up for him to. Sure he is a good manager, but sometimes I do feel we need a seasoned manager who has seen it and done it. It's just such a big job and the expectation that comes with it is massive, that you do feel a proper well rounded manager not scared to make the big decisions is better suited than a younger guy who is more of a coach. Rafa would still be up there for me if a change was to be made. Really feel he was shafted some what by those two clowns G&H and he has unfinished business with us
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Postby parchpea » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:08 am

Rodgers did better without money and he's spunked the summer transfer kitty lets face it.

He gets the Jan window and the season for me and if we are still shyte then fair enough its a lot of money to waste, hes done.

I like Rodgers despite the form but the club comes first and we have to set high standards and let it be known that anyone taking the
job has to deliver big on fine margins, that's the deal take it or leave it.

No way do I go for the long term plan, feck that its a high stakes game now and they all know it and the redundancy package is also
substantial.
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Postby Kharhaz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:29 am

The best way to look at it is this.

When we made the signings we did, did any one signing excite us?
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Postby Doeboy » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:37 am

Kharhaz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:29 am wrote:The best way to look at it is this.

When we made the signings we did, did any one signing excite us?


Good point. I was more hopeful rather than excited that some of them would turn out to be good. Of course they still can, but I think the situation was put into context when Utd, coming off a ***** season with no CL, could go out and bring in the likes of Di Maria and Falcao and we couldn't or weren't prepared to even with CL and the money coming in from the sale of Suarez.

Hit home then that we were purchasing potential rather than the ready made article
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Postby Octsky » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:10 am

Doeboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:59 pm wrote:
Kopite-Jud » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:34 pm wrote:Klopp's name is flying around in the papers, but Dortmund are doing worse than us domestically. :rasp


I do wonder about Klopp. I mean he lost his main man Lewandowski, just like Rodgers lost Suarez and suddenly its gone tits up for him to. Sure he is a good manager, but sometimes I do feel we need a seasoned manager who has seen it and done it. It's just such a big job and the expectation that comes with it is massive, that you do feel a proper well rounded manager not scared to make the big decisions is better suited than a younger guy who is more of a coach. Rafa would still be up there for me if a change was to be made. Really feel he was shafted some what by those two clowns G&H and he has unfinished business with us


at least klopp won the german title twice, and rafa won the la liga twice with valencia before coming to us.
rogers has won nothing in his life and always talk too much to the press.
he had 100m to strengthen the defense and replace suarez but he did not do that.
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Postby The_Rock » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:38 am

The thing is success & fame can have a profound affect on individuals particularly those who have not been exposed to it previously. Managers like Rafa, the King and Houllier are cut from different cloth to Rodgers. They had experienced success (in different forms) before they took over the management of this Club.

They are all very confident in their ability. Rodgers on the other hand was given this job on the basis that he was a Moneyball manager who could improve into a world class one.

He has always enjoyed the attention that comes with being a Liverpool manager. You can tell that he thrives on the attention. One season of relative success (i don't consider coming in 2nd as a success though) and he makes wholesale changes to his personal life (And i am not talking about his sparkling white teeth either). Its not my place to question someone's life choices. But you really have to wonder what type of a weasal someone is when he ditches his "old" car for a new one just after a minor (and short) success.

I strongly believe that Rodgers believes his own press.  And he loves talking to the press.

He sounds so f**king pompous in interviews (just check out what he had to say about southampton's amibition when we raided their awesome players or the other one about chelsea, man city and tottenham spending $100M so they have to compete for the league...etc), its so ridiculous. No sane manager will give out these type of interviews as they know these words can blow back in their faces when $hit hits the fan.

Even when we were on that winning run at the tail end of last season, any farsighted and competant manager would have realised the fact that the way we defended would not have been sustainable in the long-run. At that time, i gave him the benefit of Doubt. I thought he was just hesitant in making changes to a winning team and will eventually rectify the problem in the following season.

Then he drops the mother of all bombs. The reason why our defence has been so cr#ppy is because the existing CBs were not vocal enough. So Sign someone who is vocal and has leadership qualities and the defence issues of the last season are solved immediately....  :0

People who defend Rodgers keep mentioning that the relative success of last season came too fast for us. So our expectations are too high now. My take.... I don't consider coming in 2nd with early eliminations in the cup competitions as success.

And if success came early for someone....its Rodgers. He basically believed he is the sole reason for our league campaign last season. He believes he can coach any potential players into classy ones. He believes he does not need a DOF. He believes his in-competant assistants & coaches are good enough.

And we are paying the price. FSG extended his contract 6 months ago. Now its gonna cost them.
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Postby eds » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:46 am

Doeboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:51 pm wrote:
eds » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:16 pm wrote:
Doeboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:40 pm wrote:Felt sorry for BR in the post match interview. Looked a broken man and after the highs of last season, this really is a massive come down. Hope he can turn things around but as long as we carry on conceding goals we do, I don't see it changing. Unfortunately defensive problems have been an ongoing issue under Rodgers and think he needs to put his ego aside and get someone in to help with that side of the game or it will ultimately be his undoing. Also just wonder if he is losing the dressing room or not because at the moment the players don't seem to be responding to him. Although the players themselves need a long hard look at themselves, would be a major issue if they have lost faith in BR


Don't know how you can feel "sorry" for him when it's all his own doing.

If anything you should feel sorry for the real fans, the ones that will still be here long, long after he has been moved on.

Disgraceful is the way I would summarise where we are right now, absolutely disgraceful.

Most of us could see it coming from a mile off and yet here we are. A weak, spineless team full of over paid flops and has-beens!    :no

I won't be conned anymore and will say it "he is completely out of his depth at our club".

He has 3 games to turn this around; Stoke, Leicester and Sunderland, 9 points nothing less as we won't get any points against Manure or Arsenal.

Lose any of those games and he can hand in his resignation.

I have pretty much had enough of his s**t.  :veryangry


Understand where your coming from mate, but it really looked as though this loss has cut right through him and the first time I've seen him look so despondent. Pardon the pun, but there was a real air of resignation about him and he looked a broken man. Must be a massive shock to him to go from the highs of last season to the shower of Sh*t that is being served up this season. Probably the first time it looked as though he may be questioning himself and a few self doubts have creeped in and/or he is beginning to doubt whether the players are backing him.

Do agree with you that he doesn't help himself.  Really do think today could be a pivotal moment for him and it's good the loss looks to have really got to him as it may force him to try something else. He needs to get back to basics and make us hard to beat, even if that means if he has to forfeit his preferred tactics and team selection. If he sticks to what he is doing, I really do think it will be a matter of time before he gets his P45. Teams don't fear us now and are happy to get amongst us. In that situation we have to roll up our sleeves and make it a dogfight and make ourselves difficult to beat, even if it means putting aside our football philosophies to one side for now as the situation at the moment calls for it

Whether he can do that, I don't know, but he is at a critical stage of his LFC and this situation will tell us a lot about whether the job is too big for him or not


Agree with everything you said mate.

But the fact that he is ONLY at a loss now absolutely terrifies me and the rest of us that actually understand something about this game.

To bring the shower of sh*t like Borini, Aspas, Moses, Cissokho, Luis Alberto, Mignolet, Markovic, etc. (BTW two or three of those clowns are up there in terms of the worst players we have EVER had) and expect to have a platform to build upon is truly deluded and he does not deserve our faith or backing in any shape, way or form.

Only now is he (like some on this forum) slowly but very sadly realising that last season was different because of one man and one man ONLY. Unfortunately for us, Luis Suarez was so good he papered over the massive cracks we had in terms of quality. We rode the highs because we had one of the world's best players in our team, nothing more, nothing less. Football is really an easy game at the end of the day, get quality into your side and you will win stuff, plenty of stuff. Let them go and replace them with dogs**t and you will get.......well.......you work it out.

In terms of the players backing him, I couldn't care less whether they personally want to play for Rodgers or not. What I do have a problem with is players not wanting to play for the shirt, for our club. I have seen that plenty of times this season to know that certain individuals couldn't care less whether we win or lose. Some of them only care about their stinking pay checks at the end of the day (Borini being an example, what an awful, awful deluded individual).

So that leads me to your last point about "getting back to basics", "rolling up our sleeves and making it a dog fight". Couldn't agree more, when the chips are down and when we have our backs to the wall I expect EVERY single player to come out breathing fire and playing out of their skins. Rodgers needs to facilitate this by dropping Gerrard and Johnson. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with someone partnering Balotelli and telling every single Liverpool player that their careers are on the line as of tomorrow!
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Postby tonna » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:47 am

Doeboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:40 pm wrote:Felt sorry for BR in the post match interview. Looked a broken man and after the highs of last season, this really is a massive come down. Hope he can turn things around but as long as we carry on conceding goals we do, I don't see it changing. Unfortunately defensive problems have been an ongoing issue under Rodgers and think he needs to put his ego aside and get someone in to help with that side of the game or it will ultimately be his undoing. Also just wonder if he is losing the dressing room or not because at the moment the players don't seem to be responding to him. Although the players themselves need a long hard look at themselves, would be a major issue if they have lost faith in BR

He's broken because there is no solution without bringing in big money players.
Sturridge is still absent, Mario isn't the answer to any questions apart from the obvious.
Borini is a waste of time and a wage and Lambert doesn't have what it takes.
So that's no goals so how are we going to win games?
This game against Palace offered no hope whatsoever.
I can't think of one player (ok maybe Stevie) who did a good job and I can think of a few who should quietly leave the building.
Toure and Lucas can't possibly do worse than what was on display.
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Postby killerp » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:59 am

For me its not 100% Rodgers fault we are where we are, its the owners for not being involved enough to know what they are spending their(Clubs) money on, including everything, CEO, manager, staff, players etc.... I know its generally not a good thing for owners to get directly involved in day-to-day operations of a football club but our situation shows that we are extremely naive in how we have invested a huge sum of money and the owners are so far removed from Football they haven't a clue what to do or how to properly run a football club. Not saying they are terrible owners but they are static sitting around waiting for miracles to happen with a moderate budget and staff visibly not up to the job.

If the blame goes all to Rodgers and he gets the sack its entirely probably that the owners will hire another manager out of his depth to attempt another botched and expensive revival that seems more unlikely with every overpriced flop we purchase. I always hear investing for the future, building for the future, youth, potential... blah blah blah.... what about the here and now?? the next 3-4 years?. Some of us supporters are growing extremely withered and grey listening to this garbage decade after decade. I have been supporting since 2004, that's a decade down, I can't imagine what it must be like for the lads doing 25+ years waiting for that one trophy.

Going forward from here, at the very least split your transfer strategy 50/50, allocate 50% of your overall budget to a few players that make a difference now and the rest can be used to buy potential and basically gamble.
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Postby eds » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:40 am

killerp » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:59 am wrote:For me its not 100% Rodgers fault we are where we are, its the owners for not being involved enough to know what they are spending their(Clubs) money on, including everything, CEO, manager, staff, players etc.... I know its generally not a good thing for owners to get directly involved in day-to-day operations of a football club but our situation shows that we are extremely naive in how we have invested a huge sum of money and the owners are so far removed from Football they haven't a clue what to do or how to properly run a football club. Not saying they are terrible owners but they are static sitting around waiting for miracles to happen with a moderate budget and staff visibly not up to the job.

If the blame goes all to Rodgers and he gets the sack its entirely probably that the owners will hire another manager out of his depth to attempt another botched and expensive revival that seems more unlikely with every overpriced flop we purchase. I always hear investing for the future, building for the future, youth, potential... blah blah blah.... what about the here and now?? the next 3-4 years?. Some of us supporters are growing extremely withered and grey listening to this garbage decade after decade. I have been supporting since 2004, that's a decade down, I can't imagine what it must be like for the lads doing 25+ years waiting for that one trophy.

Going forward from here, at the very least split your transfer strategy 50/50, allocate 50% of your overall budget to a few players that make a difference now and the rest can be used to buy potential and basically gamble.


You raise some very good points mate and I will add my thoughts.

Just like Rodgers I have never trusted these yanks.

Most on here have carried on like a pack of galahs thinking they have been the best thing since sliced bread. Easily fooled individuals that swallow any PR bulls**t that comes their way. You even had some on here a week ago pointing out that they were in the Middle East looking to bring in fresh new investment to the club. Strange? You would have thought that with Werner saying as I recall (a few seasons back) that we had  "enough money to compete with any other team on the planet" that we wouldn't need to do this? Something doesn't smell right at all and it all starts with the fact that they bought our club for f**k all, coming in like "white knights" to save the day a few years ago. Yet our net spend (since they took over) I believe sits at a measly 20-25m per year.....  :glare: 

Primarily what i don't like about them is that they (as you highlighted) don't understand anything about football and only understand money. I always thought that the reason why they interviewed Rodgers and Martinez a few seasons back is because they were brought in to be "yes" men. Yes to buying younger players and trying to mould them into tomorrow's superstars. Yes to filling in the gaps with "cheap" players that have very high stats in certain areas but nothing to show in all other departments. Yes to not spending too much on salaries and player transfers but using financial stability and concepts like "wage structuring" to now define what "success" means at our club.  :no   

Everything is a spreadsheet to these people with numbers next to every row, they don't understand the fundamentals of what makes a great side, all they understand is how much a players costs, how much his value is and what stats he can bring to the side. It's an ideology that sits well within their American sports but not compatible with the world game, our game. That is why I believe Rodgers has brought in so many players in that mould, either young or an  inexpensive fill-in. That's what will ultimately cost him his job. Because he didn't have the ability or ba.ll.s to challenge this stupid, stupid position.

For the ones thinking that Benitez will come in and save the day. Ask yourselves why FSG didn't even interview him when they had the chance too before Rodgers was given the job? Once you answer this question, you will finally begin to understand why these owners are ultimately behind our demise, and not Rodgers or any other puppet they bring in after him. Based of this do you honestly think that we will get a world class, results driven manager that will be happy with a net spend of 20--25m on players per season?  :laugh:
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Postby C-R » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:50 am

Regarding the original question, is the Job too big for Rodgers?

YES
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Postby Reg » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:52 am

Eds as usual you get the wrong end of the stick, usually the end that's covered in pooh.

'The 'Yanks' as you call them bought a business and pay a management team in Liverpool to run it. They have an agreed business plan and a budget. Within the framework of that business plan, the management are free to do what they want and in the case of buyers, buy and sell who they want as long as the profile and value conforms to the agreed plan.

So, to clarify for your end of the stick, Ayres (another one you love, and of course Parry before him) and BR have agreed to the business plan and are accountable for it's implementation and success. If it becomes obvious the business plan is not working then as with any other business, the management can go back to the owners and present their case for changing the strategy. So the problem right now is the Liverpool management's inability to implement the agreed strategy, which is not 'the yanks' fault. If you had written 'The problem is that having been given the green light by the owners to spend 120 million, BR went out and bought a load of sh!te' then I would have agreed with you. But you prefer an 'Us and Them' scenario to deflect the blame onto 'the owners' - a kind of anti authority thing eh?

Accountability and responsibility is 100% in Liverpool mate, not in the States.
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Postby C-R » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:06 am

Thats a really good post Reg (not the Eds bit) but the explanation of the business plan, i learnt something there, thanks

Personally i don't see it as an us and them scenario, i think the owners have been excellent since coming in, the fault lies with the managment team who have bought in the players and of course the players themselves

The job is too big for BR, he is a likeable guy and a very good 'coach' but i think we need a more experienced man at the helm, a top European coach

I am not saying Rafa would be my choice, but Rafa or someone like him would be the ideal candidate

i will await the on the abuse now for suggesting Rafa  :upside:
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Postby Reg » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:27 am

cardiff-red » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:06 pm wrote:Thats a really good post Reg (not the Eds bit):

That was the best bit!  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
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Postby UvS xR4GEx » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:36 am

BR failed to get rid of alot of deadwood in the summer and somehow managed to sign even more deadwood in the process. We were made to believe Moreno, Markovic and Balotelli were the missing jigsaw pieces from our team of last season. I'll be honest I'd seen Markovic myself in the Europa League the previous year and thought he looked great, like a young Robert Pires..

People say BR gets the best out of players, but what is that actually based on?? Last year??

For me it's pretty obvious who got the best out of our players and that is Luis Suarez. Look at players like Henderson and Coutiniho.. world beaters last year, this year look lost in a very poor midfield.

BR has had too much credit from last year and he's bought complete and utter tripe this year, and even worse destroyed their confidence.

Do we trust him with any money in january?? Seriously?
I loved the man last year, but he's losing the fans and the players and that is a remedy for disaster.
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