MAMADOU SAKHO - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby andy_g » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:00 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:57 am wrote:Yeah but those diagrams never show where the opposition players were standing when he made those passes.
Sakho's ability to play balls through traffic into the feet of our midfielders/forwards is on a different level to Skrtel imo



of course....

and it was only against cardiff. and maybe the whole team was standing by their right side corner flag to gove skrtel room to pass. or maybe he made all those passes in the 2 minutes before full time. or maybe everyone got confused and this is just the warm up.

we'll have to all sit down together and watch the games again to effectively discuss how he actually got on.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:13 am

Practically every time Sakho plays for us he at least threads one ball though each game where I think to myself 'great ball', I can't honestly recall the last time I thought that over a Skrtel pass, never mind regularly thinking that over Skrtels distribution.
Skrtel has been a rock for us this season but his distribution isn't as good as Sakho's, it's not bad by any means but Sakho's distribution is as good as I've seen from a CB here since Hansen.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:24 pm

Stu the Red » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:30 am wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:02 pm wrote:I just cant pick out this cultured and decisive player other fans see when it comes to Sakho ,and exactly how fans see him as evolving into an integral component
and someone to build our defence around, I'm afraid I just find completely mystifying........However,if he suddenly transforms into a veritable Titan in our back
four rather than a defender who displays a worrying indecisiveness and has a particular propensity for exacting rash tackles ,then I will almost certainly retract my
earlier reservations .

Yet you advocate playing a player who doesn't show any ability what so ever in terms of team work, positional sense or concentration?


Like I said above ,when Sakho does something to make me sit up and take notice I will duly applaud his progress from man on stilts to competent defender,until
then I will safely say his defending has a similar effect to ingesting a whole box of  Bran flakes.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:27 pm

andy_g » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 am wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:57 am wrote:Yeah but those diagrams never show where the opposition players were standing when he made those passes.
Sakho's ability to play balls through traffic into the feet of our midfielders/forwards is on a different level to Skrtel imo



of course....

and it was only against cardiff. and maybe the whole team was standing by their right side corner flag to gove skrtel room to pass. or maybe he made all those passes in the 2 minutes before full time. or maybe everyone got confused and this is just the warm up.

we'll have to all sit down together and watch the games again to effectively discuss how he actually got on.




:D
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Stu the Red » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:32 am wrote:
SouthCoastShankly » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:49 am wrote:
Sakho - Good squad player and potentially a first team regular. However not a good as Skrtel: aerially, DISTRIBUTION or tackling.


:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Next you'll be telling us that Suarez is faster than Michael Owen was! :laugh:


Why the f*ck do you keep dragging the name of that 'Bumboy' into every thread ?
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Sakho gives me nightmares. Every time he plays a pass he either slips over or looks as though he's about to. He gets caught in possession, can't play a simple 5 yard ball and jumps into the tackle whether the ball is there to be won or not. His ungainly appearance reminds me of Traore as they both look like Bambi on ice. I'm sorry, but I can't ever see this lad becoming international class, let alone world class. He's just too indecisive and awkward.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:42 pm

Lando_Griffin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:34 pm wrote:Sakho gives me nightmares. Every time he plays a pass he either slips over or looks as though he's about to. He gets caught in possession, can't play a simple 5 yard ball and jumps into the tackle whether the ball is there to be won or not. His ungainly appearance reminds me of Traore as they both look like Bambi on ice. I'm sorry, but I can't ever see this lad becoming international class, let alone world class. He's just too indecisive and awkward.


Finally some sense ,welcome back fella  :D
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:57 pm

andy_g » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:50 am wrote:i'm not convinced by this idea that sakho is much better at passing into midfield than skrtel is, and i actually think that this is an area of skrtel's game that is often overlooked. if you remember, he actually began his career as a forward, and you can see that when he has the ball at his feet in advanced positions he actually has pretty decent footwork. this confidence on the ball carries over into his general game if you ask me (which you didn't).

i was trying to find some more detailed analysis of his passing but the best i could find in the few moments i have is this diagram from the cardiff game. make of it what you will, but it at least proves that in this game his passing was pretty varied and for the most part forwards. (even the sideways ones are slightly forwards so i'm counting those as well  :;):  )

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its from this article by the way - which gives a pretty good analysis of his game. its objective, of course, and we can all pick holes in opinion but there's some good stats and points in there.

http://www.squawka.com/news/2014/03/24/skrtel-vs-cardiff/2014032486298


When you talk about Skrtel being comfortable on the ball I have to question whether or not we're talking about the same player?

To be quite honest, the goal against Southampton earlier in the season (which cost us yet another three points) was as a direct result of his terrible indecision and nervousness when the ball comes to his feet. He actually could have controlled the ball or done anything, instead he hesitated, more than once and allowed the ball to actually trickle out of play, rather than taking any sort of touch, the got a throw in, scored, we lost the match.

The stats you point too, do not show how deep the opposition were at the time of the pass, any of their positions, whether it was the right, wrong or safe ball and whether he was under pressure during any of those. They also do not show the position of the rest of our players, whether the pass resulted in the receiver being under massive pressure or having to check a run just about any other variable that can occur during a game.

For example on the last point... you can play a successful pass on a counter attack, but just because its successful doesn't mean its a good ball, you could play the pass to the wrong player, you can play it behind the player losing the momentum for a move.... again, any other variable you can think of.

All of which are valid points, however, the likes of certain muppets can't understand that its a valid point. (not specifically yourself Andy).

Skrtel has played well in parts this season, but will always have massive brain farts and make stupid amateurish errors that will cost us games and points. He has far to many of these to really be considered as anything other than a squad player, his goal threat this season is the main reason he's made up for these flaws.

Luckily, Southampton, Swansea and City don't look like they're going to cost us the title this season and he has made up for some shockers with goals in other games, but the reality is, in his five year stay, he's had more bad games than good. One decent season in five years does not constitute keeping a player who is part of the worst Liverpool back 4 we've had in the last 15 years.
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Postby damjan193 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:59 pm

Not that Skrtel's distribution is bad but I think that Sakho is a bit better at it. But I can't understand why people prefer to use stats to prove their point for simple things like this when all you need to do is to watch the game. IMO, Sakho is a lot better than Skrtel in releasing pressure by playing a good pass when the opposition is trying to press us high and he's better at passing it through traffic.

Stats say that Skrtel offers variety with his passing but that means nothing. For example, if he passes to Gerrard, Johnson, Sakho and Mignolet but Gerrard can't even turn around when he receives it, Johnson can only pass it back and Sakho is in a no better position than Skrtel, then the pass is meaningless. Sakho may pass to Coutinho all the time for example, but if it's usually a pass that goes through the opposition's midfield, thus giving Coutinho a lot more space to turn around, then that makes Sakho a better passer even if he doesn't offer as much variety as Skrtel. I think that Yakka made a good point a few posts above.
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Postby damjan193 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:19 pm

devaney » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:00 am wrote:Damjan - I think the midfield is more of a problem when we rely on Lucas. I like the lad but I feel that we have gone past his level. Gerrard and Henderson work very well so I'd struggle to change that. Coutinho and Sterling both offer a great deal defensively. How would you change it and who would be your preferred choices?

Well dev, it's true that with Henderson and Gerrard in midfield and with Coutinho in front of them we've started to control our games a bit more than we did before. But still very often we see the midfield just sitting back, inviting pressure and practically doing nothing. You may have the best defenders in the league but you're still going to concede a lot if you do this. That's why I said that I think that probably our biggest flaw while defending is a bit deeper than just the quality of the players. The problem is tactical and Rodgers needs to admit it and sort it out.

Even if we can sort it out tactically, I still think that we need someone who can defend the back 4 better, a ball winner. As good as Gerrard has been for us he doesn't offer too much protection for the defenders while Henderson can't tackle. Though with Gerrard's brains and Henderson's energy and with Coutinho and Sterling helping them out we've started establishing control in games so maybe we don't necessarily need a Makelele type of player. A midfielder with a good engine and good passing ability who is not necessarily a great tackle could do a job for us. A box to box player like Ivan Rakitic would solve a few problems I believe. He would be a good replacement for Gerrard as well.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:33 pm

damjan193 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:19 pm wrote:
devaney » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:00 am wrote:Damjan - I think the midfield is more of a problem when we rely on Lucas. I like the lad but I feel that we have gone past his level. Gerrard and Henderson work very well so I'd struggle to change that. Coutinho and Sterling both offer a great deal defensively. How would you change it and who would be your preferred choices?

Well dev, it's true that with Henderson and Gerrard in midfield and with Coutinho in front of them we've started to control our games a bit more than we did before. But still very often we see the midfield just sitting back, inviting pressure and practically doing nothing. You may have the best defenders in the league but you're still going to concede a lot if you do this. That's why I said that I think that probably our biggest flaw while defending is a bit deeper than just the quality of the players. The problem is tactical and Rodgers needs to admit it and sort it out.

Even if we can sort it out tactically, I still think that we need someone who can defend the back 4 better, a ball winner. As good as Gerrard has been for us he doesn't offer too much protection for the defenders while Henderson can't tackle. Though with Gerrard's brains and Henderson's energy and with Coutinho and Sterling helping them out we've started establishing control in games so maybe we don't necessarily need a Makelele type of player. A midfielder with a good engine and good passing ability who is not necessarily a great tackle could do a job for us. A box to box player like Ivan Rakitic would solve a few problems I believe. He would be a good replacement for Gerrard as well.


Carragher and Neville did a interesting segment on this on Monday night football, they showed how we are dropping too deep and inviting pressure onto ourselves, they pointed out that our CB's are dropping too deep as well.
They showed clips of other teams who's back 4 were constantly shuttling backwards and forwards in a line forcing opposition forwards to constantly change their positions in order to get back onside where as the likes of Sakho and Skrtel were dropping right back to our 6 yard area and staying there allowing opposition forwards to basically set up camp under our keepers nose.
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Postby C-R » Mon May 26, 2014 6:01 pm

France obviously rate him, he will captain France tomorrow night against Norway.
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Postby Basil » Mon May 26, 2014 9:42 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:42 pm wrote:
Lando_Griffin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:34 pm wrote:Sakho gives me nightmares. Every time he plays a pass he either slips over or looks as though he's about to. He gets caught in possession, can't play a simple 5 yard ball and jumps into the tackle whether the ball is there to be won or not. His ungainly appearance reminds me of Traore as they both look like Bambi on ice. I'm sorry, but I can't ever see this lad becoming international class, let alone world class. He's just too indecisive and awkward.


Finally some sense ,welcome back fella  :D


This is exactly what I was saying about a month or so back, I really can't understand why so many people seem to rate Sakho so highly, I'm for ever having this discussion with my lad. I always look for the good points in our players but I really can't see any in Sakho. It appears to me that he can hardly kick a ball but then my son showed me a video of him training with the French team and I was amazed at his ball skills, he was doing all the tricks in the book !
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Postby devaney » Tue May 27, 2014 7:50 am

I've tried to get enthusiastic about Sakho mainly because I don't want to see £17m pi.ssed down the Mersey. Got to say apart from his somewhat frightening appearance he leaves a lot to be desired. Don't agree about his passing as I actually think that is the best part of his game. Invariably he looks for a positive pass to a player in a reasonable position. His worst pass of the season was to Gerrard when he slipped. There were several better options and his selection possible cost us more than we will ever know  :veryangry
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue May 27, 2014 11:08 am

devaney » Tue May 27, 2014 6:50 am wrote:I've tried to get enthusiastic about Sakho mainly because I don't want to see £17m pi.ssed down the Mersey. Got to say apart from his somewhat frightening appearance he leaves a lot to be desired. Don't agree about his passing as I actually think that is the best part of his game. Invariably he looks for a positive pass to a player in a reasonable position. His worst pass of the season was to Gerrard when he slipped. There were several better options and his selection possible cost us more than we will ever know  :veryangry


You're joking aren't you Dev? There was nothing wrong with Sakho's pass, he didn't give it to Gerrard when he was under pressure or anything, in fact even after letting the ball run under his foot Gerrard still had time to get to the ball but he exacerbated his first mistake with another.
Gerrard had plenty of time and space to control a bog standard pass and made a right pigs breakfast of it but it has to be said he didn't make the mistake in the last minute, we still had over a half of footy to score 1 goal against a scratch Chelsea side.
We just didn't play well on the day.
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