Liverpool FC Forum

devaney » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:52 pm wrote:Gerrard is now doing a lot of Lucas's work but far more effectively. I can't see him walking straight back into the team. He's a good lad but I can't see a place for him. Coutinho is a game changer so I don't think he should be dropped even if he is a bit in and out. Allen is very useful to bring on as a sub. The same will apply to Lucas.

I agree. Lucas could be a very effective sub when we are looking to close out a game.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:38 pm wrote:I think Rodgers will stick to his normal game plan, the team that got battered last season at Southampton included the likes of Jones, Downing, Allen (when he was struggling for form in the second half of last season) and Skrtel who was low on confidence and playing his first game since the F.A cup debacle at Oldham.
The likes of Hendo and Lucas were on the bench.
Yes they beat us at Anfield earlier on in the season too but that was the game Rodgers tried the '4 Centre backs' experiment and Suarez was still banned, here's the team that lost to Southampton in September - Mingolet, Toure, Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas, Aspas, Moses, Sturridge........not really a surprise looking at that line up.
For the first time in a while Southampton will be playing a proper Liverpool team next weekend, let's see how they do.

That's a good point but then again Southampton are very similar to Swansea, only maybe a bit better. They also like to press high and they deal with pressure well themselves. I agree that Swansea were somewhat lucky with some of their goals yesterday but if we're being honest, the controlled most of the game, and that was at Anfield. Against Southampton we'll be playing away and against a similar but better team than Swansea. I think that considering these circumstances and that Allen appears to be in good form, I say we strengthen the midfield and sacrifice one of our 4 attacking players.

damjan193 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:14 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:38 pm wrote:I think Rodgers will stick to his normal game plan, the team that got battered last season at Southampton included the likes of Jones, Downing, Allen (when he was struggling for form in the second half of last season) and Skrtel who was low on confidence and playing his first game since the F.A cup debacle at Oldham.
The likes of Hendo and Lucas were on the bench.
Yes they beat us at Anfield earlier on in the season too but that was the game Rodgers tried the '4 Centre backs' experiment and Suarez was still banned, here's the team that lost to Southampton in September - Mingolet, Toure, Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas, Aspas, Moses, Sturridge........not really a surprise looking at that line up.
For the first time in a while Southampton will be playing a proper Liverpool team next weekend, let's see how they do.

That's a good point but then again Southampton are very similar to Swansea, only maybe a bit better. They also like to press high and they deal with pressure well themselves. I agree that Swansea were somewhat lucky with some of their goals yesterday but if we're being honest, the controlled most of the game, and that was at Anfield. Against Southampton we'll be playing away and against a similar but better team than Swansea. I think that considering these circumstances and that Allen appears to be in good form, I say we strengthen the midfield and sacrifice one of our 4 attacking players.

I don't think they move the ball as well as Swansea who top the possession table.
Arsenal are also better than Southampton in possession and so arguably are Everton and we absolutely blitzed those two sides.
I think we should let teams worry about us.

It's their high pressure that worries me actually. I'm pretty sure that we'll see a similar game to the one when we lost 3-1 to Stoke or WBA when they had Clarke. Not saying that we'll lose but Southampton will play a similar game.

damjan193 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:20 pm wrote:It's their high pressure that worries me actually. I'm pretty sure that we'll see a similar game to the one when we lost 3-1 to Stoke or WBA when they had Clarke. Not saying that we'll lose but Southampton will play a similar game.

It's going to be tough mate no doubt about it, St Mary's isn't an easy place to go but they aren't in the best of form themselves, they've lost their last 2 games to West Ham and Sunderland and scraped a 2-2 draw at home before that against Stoke.
They've a decent record against the top sides at home but I don't think we should be altering our starting XI on account of them, yes we weren't great against Swansea but our form has been erratic all season, we often follow a couple of average performances with an unbelievable performance so let's hope that sequence continues this week end.

If we are going to persist with playing all of our attacking players then we will see games like this. The balance isnt right at all. It has worked brilliantly against Everton and arsenal but I think thats due to the intensity the side has played with them being massive games. You get more out of players. The front 4 got back in and helped Henderson and gerrard out. Against the likes of villa and swansea we turn up expecting to win and the intensity isn't quite the same. That gives you problems as the midfield gets overrun. Allen has to come back in for me and one of the attacking players has to come out.

Ben when I originally suggested that we use S S S C as an attacking force you were in absolute disagreement and believe it or not you still are. That attacking force has been incredibly successful and the results prove it.  I think you suggested that the likes of Arsenal would rip us apart and the reverse was actually true. Everton were quite simply embarrassed by our attack. No other teams have done what we did to Everton and Arsenal this season. Scoring more goals than the opposition is the single most important factor. Stating the bleeding obvious I know. Our fullbacks are a far bigger problem than either the attack or the midfield. Who would you take out to accommodate Allen who I think of late is looking more like the player he was when he first arrived and certainly looks to have a future?

Villa was simply a shit day at the office 

Who to take out is a tough one. Probably coutinho. But thats not to say this is every week. I dont think we should think because the system we played worked great against arsenal and Everton that it will every match. There is no getting around the fact that we played some of the best football we have seen in those two games. But we did away at spurs with the 3 man midfield. My point is in games where the intensity isnt quite there then we can be totally overrun. Swansea dominated the game at anfield and on another day we would have dropped points again like villa. We have shown we can play with the four of them in the side but they need to do things that arent necessarily in their make up. Against the sides we expect to beat I dont think you get the same work rate without the ball as we do in the bigger games.

I agree Ben on another day or even last year we would have lost the Fulham and Swansea games but that is an indicator of just how much we have improved. You're right there is no way that you can effectively play the same team every game but leaving Coutinho out takes a lot of guts considering how quickly he can change a game. Allen doesn't give us that quality but he is excellent in other areas. Isn't it great to have this dilemma !!

By the way Swansea didn't actually dominate the game at Anfield even though at times it felt just like that. Here are the stats:

Liverpool                       Swansea City
21(10) Shots (on goal) 14(5)
9 Fouls                          11
3 Corner kicks          5
2 Offsides                  0
53% Time of Possession 47%
1 Yellow Cards           0
0 Red Cards                   0
2 Saves                   6

Nah, not for me, it's about time we got back to the old philosophy of letting the opposition worry about us, and if we did have to make a change it wouldn't be any of our front four who have been the reason why we are flying so high in the table.
If people are so concerned about us being over run in midfield then swap Gerrard for Allen who will give us more energy and mobility and won't sit so deep but for me I'd leave it as it is, this is Southampton not Brazil circa 1970.

Yakka you would honestly still swap Gerrard for Allen? I thought that somewhat dubious argument was dead in the water. Gerrard is adapting superbly well to his new position and I just can't believe you would stuff him on the bench.

devaney » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:27 pm wrote:Yakka you would honestly still swap Gerrard for Allen? I thought that somewhat dubious argument was dead in the water. Gerrard is adapting superbly well to his new position and I just can't believe you would stuff him on the bench.

I wouldn't change the team full stop, but if a change had to be made that that is what I would do.
Our strength this season has been our attack and I wouldn't weaken it in any shape or form, it's the reason why we are in with a genuine shot at the title and it's the only area of our team that has pretty much turned up week in week out (which is something our defence and midfield hasn't done).
If people are adamant that we have to bolster our defence then I'd rather the disruption happened behind our forward line and not affect our ability to attack. To me the names Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho should be chiseled into our team sheet in stone, they have to start.
I'd be tempted to throw Cissokho back in too, he's awful on the ball but defensively he's better than any other fullback we've got at doing the bread and butter things like blocking crosses and tracking runners etc. Johnson and Flannagan were very ordinary Sunday.

you lot must be looking at a different allen than me 
fair enough he will press quickly but offers nothing other than a side ways pass. not much creativity either and is poor in front of goal. he is alright as an option from the bench but no where near a starter. wouldnt touch the front 3, hendo does enough running in my book and coutinho pulls the strings. gerrard has improved in that role and is always capable of a minutes genius to win a game.
leave it as it is i say 

devaney » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:27 pm wrote:Yakka you would honestly still swap Gerrard for Allen? I thought that somewhat dubious argument was dead in the water. Gerrard is adapting superbly well to his new position and I just can't believe you would stuff him on the bench.

Why is that shocking? Although i can't see this happening ,placing Allen ,another little engine in the MF would bring more balance to the team and enhance our tempo of play and defensive coverage.
As to your contention that Stevie is adopting superbly? hmm slight exaggeration on your part. His covering of the MF ,tracking back ,harassing the opponent is miles from what is required. He does have a presence one can't replace so it's all theoretical speculations...

OnlyMe - Gerrard is number 8 if that helps 

Miles off what is required. I don't know what you've been watching for the past few games. That is what's shocking 

What is this balance malarchy all about? Did you see Gerrard's brilliant through ball to Sturridge recently? It's being talked about as the pass of the season. That's what fans go to see not somebody that generally passes the ball five yards backwards or sideways which Allen has perfected and it is the key reason why he has a phenomenal pass completion percentage. Gerrard and Coutinho are game changers. Henderson is becoming more important to the team by the week. Currently I don't think that there are starting places for either Lucas or Allen. A couple of decent fullbacks would go a very long way towards giving the team the required extra quality in defence that I believe is the area that desperately needs an upgrade. Flanno has done ok but I'm not sure that he is anywhere near CL level.