Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 pm wrote:The bottom line is that we just didn't play well enough, in the first half hour Moreno and Skrtel probably had a better passing average for United than Carrick and Herrera, literally every time they touched the ball it went to a white shirt.
Sterling didn't look interested, he actually looked like a player with one eye on the exit door, Allen and Hendo looked leaden footed and for all the talk of Balotelli being lazy Danny wasn't exactly busting a gut to close down their back 4.
In fact bar Sakho and Phil everyone else had below par games.
When you get so many players having an off day you are in trouble and when you are playing a decent side on one of their good days then you are in even more trouble.
That was the story of today, not tactics or formations.

Its everything to do with tactics ,we may as well have sent details by fucking carrier pigeon to Van Gaal on how we're going to set up ,people need to be honest
here and state what they saw unfolding even before their first goal ,and then possibly explain just why this escaped the supposedly keen eye of the manager 

Yes players had off games ,but does that imply the manager should also be bereft of injecting a fresh approach to alter an opponents  dominance ,Rodgers was lost
out there today when simple changes would have caused Van Gaal to alter his tactics ...Lallana for one should have been replaced with Balotelli ,United looked
rattled when he took to the pitch ,defenders hate playing against him and he gets in their faces and creates havoc.

Our defence had no protection whatsoever so we were opened up way too many times in the first 10 fucking minutes than was comfortable ,even a half fit Lucas would
have negated the threat carried by of Herrera and Carrick who possibly couldn't believe the space and time they were afforded to pick a pass ,they pushed us back so
deep we had six in fucking midfield and a veritable chasm separating them from Sturridge.

Forgive me if I view correcting this as part of a Liverpool managers duties 

Problem for us is that to keep up there we have to give 100% to a man every single game and our squad is not
deep enough to sustain that over a long campaign, we have looked leggy in recent weeks.

The league is a long hard campaign and to play that high intensity game is extremely difficult.

Last year was a one off for us, and extraordinary effort with a world class player in our front line who no team
could hold.

I think we will struggle from here and tail off, regrettably.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 pm wrote:The bottom line is that we just didn't play well enough, in the first half hour Moreno and Skrtel probably had a better passing average for United than Carrick and Herrera, literally every time they touched the ball it went to a white shirt.
Sterling didn't look interested, he actually looked like a player with one eye on the exit door, Allen and Hendo looked leaden footed and for all the talk of Balotelli being lazy Danny wasn't exactly busting a gut to close down their back 4.
In fact bar Sakho and Phil everyone else had below par games.
When you get so many players having an off day you are in trouble and when you are playing a decent side on one of their good days then you are in even more trouble.
That was the story of today, not tactics or formations.

What absolute rubbish Yakka? You are really getting more and more bias as the time goes on towards Rodger's glaring flaws. 

As RBG mentioned above Rodgers was once again taken to the cleaners by a more astute tactician in Van Gaal.

The Manc's average starting XI with their three plodding DMs did most of the damage, similar set-up as Mourinho's mob last season in THAT pivotal game but I thought these Mancs carried out VG's game plan a whole lot better. Our players were meant to play out of their skin in arguably this season's most important game but once again we have a manager that can't motivate our squad to even a fart's whistle. Which begs the question, will we actually win anything with him? Most of us are far from convinced.

Gerrard lost the plot and needs to be benched for the rest of the season as his time was plainly up at the end of last. No matter how much the media are obsessed in defending him and making him a virtual saint it was a stupid act that warranted a red. Had it been Suarez, last season we wouldn't be hearing about it for days but the obvious double-standards are laughable.

The last thing I will comment on is the glaring omission that no has seemed to comment on and which was also vital point in the game and just as bad as Gerrard's red card. Can't believe that Jones' got away with a flying sidewards karate kick into the side of Henderson's leg, which should have seen him walk as well. Terrible ref decision and would have changed the complexion of the game still at 1-0.

At the end of the day we were poor, players AND manager are at fault. At least the apologists have had a decent dose of reality and how tough it will be to get even 4th this season. And hopefully we won't be hearing anymore of their pathetic chest beating, with them strangely going quiet after just one game. 

We were out-played and out thought and did not get going until the 35 min mark when at last some tackles went flying in. Why did it take until then to show some spirit?? It beggard belief. This was a must win game. We knew it, they knew and so did BR so what the hell did he say to them before going out onto the pitch? The worrying thing is this is not an isolated instance - we were ***** coming out v Blackburn and Swansea and now this game.. If they could not be up for this BR may as well have picked 11 lads from off the Kop to have started! They would have shown more desire and got the crowd going.  It was such a let-down.

Yes United had the ball and controlled the game but we let them - in our own backyard!!! Even when we got beat 3-0 at OT we played much better than that.

If Lallana had smashed that ball into the net then it would have swung the momentum our way. Then he rightly got subbed but it could so easily have been Allen and when Stevie comes on and then deservedly gets his marching orders that was almost game over. Even when they went 2 up we actually showed the fight we should have at kick-off and maybe could have got a draw.

Coutinho showed they could be passed through with the ball for Sturridge's goal - it was just criminal that he was the only one who was anywhere near playing his normal game.

In hindisight Lucas should have started and he defo should v Arsenal.

Let's just hope BR gets his tactics spotty dog on for the FA Cup replay and the players actually realise that a game last 94 mins not about 15 - 30 mins, like they have thought recently, otherwise our season will defo tail off.

We had top 4 in our hands

Thats the worst ive seen us all season.  United wanted it more, we were f#king woeful.

Credit to them but it was more us being bad than them being good. Sterling couldn't even kick a ball.

They are sh!te.....

We lose at Arsenal and that sh!te win against Villa and we're 8 points behind.

Top 4 is all but over for me.

I have said before that fourth spot is totally beyond us due to the bad start of the season because BR managment styel which it hd resulted losing to much points and ground on the teams above us.

Yesterday's team selection and naive tactics by BR was the main reason for losing this match.. Almost everyone knew what it will the scum tactics to foil the clever BR system, which we had a taste of  against Swansea, and we got luck to get 3 points from that match. The scum came to control the match pace to suit them and take control of the match from the first minute, overloding the midfield, whereas the useless Henderson didn't put in one tackle to lead by example, that is why he is not worthy to be a skipper of LFC.

BR was totally lost he didn't know how to handel the situation, which it does prove he is an average manager and he is not worthy of his place. He lacks the know how to change team tactcis to suit an opponent teams.
I just can't see us to get six ponts from Arsenal and Chelsea games, and even Stoke City.

We are facing a bleak finish to a disappointed season, and all come down to bad management!!!

eds » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:59 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 pm wrote:The bottom line is that we just didn't play well enough, in the first half hour Moreno and Skrtel probably had a better passing average for United than Carrick and Herrera, literally every time they touched the ball it went to a white shirt.
Sterling didn't look interested, he actually looked like a player with one eye on the exit door, Allen and Hendo looked leaden footed and for all the talk of Balotelli being lazy Danny wasn't exactly busting a gut to close down their back 4.
In fact bar Sakho and Phil everyone else had below par games.
When you get so many players having an off day you are in trouble and when you are playing a decent side on one of their good days then you are in even more trouble.
That was the story of today, not tactics or formations.

What absolute rubbish Yakka? You are really getting more and more bias as the time goes on towards Rodger's glaring flaws. 

As RBG mentioned above Rodgers was once again taken to the cleaners by a more astute tactician in Van Gaal.

The Manc's average starting XI with their three plodding DMs did most of the damage, similar set-up as Mourinho's mob last season in THAT pivotal game but I thought these Mancs carried out VG's game plan a whole lot better. Our players were meant to play out of their skin in arguably this season's most important game but once again we have a manager that can't motivate our squad to even a fart's whistle. Which begs the question, will we actually win anything with him? Most of us are far from convinced.

Gerrard lost the plot and needs to be benched for the rest of the season as his time was plainly up at the end of last. No matter how much the media are obsessed in defending him and making him a virtual saint it was a stupid act that warranted a red. Had it been Suarez, last season we wouldn't be hearing about it for days but the obvious double-standards are laughable.

The last thing I will comment on is the glaring omission that no has seemed to comment on and which was also vital point in the game and just as bad as Gerrard's red card. Can't believe that Jones' got away with a flying sidewards karate kick into the side of Henderson's leg, which should have seen him walk as well. Terrible ref decision and would have changed the complexion of the game still at 1-0.

At the end of the day we were poor, players AND manager are at fault. At least the apologists have had a decent dose of reality and how tough it will be to get even 4th this season. And hopefully we won't be hearing anymore of their pathetic chest beating, with them strangely going quiet after just one game. 

You know what I half want Rodgers to get the sack so I can sit back and be a moaning **** from the sidelines just like you lot.
You all think it's so easy to compete with teams like City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal all of whom have more resources than us.
You want to be careful what you wish for, you assume that if we bring a new manager in that the only way is up.

This game was reminiscent of every Champions League game this season.

We seem to freeze when it matters.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:43 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 pm wrote:The bottom line is that we just didn't play well enough, in the first half hour Moreno and Skrtel probably had a better passing average for United than Carrick and Herrera, literally every time they touched the ball it went to a white shirt.
Sterling didn't look interested, he actually looked like a player with one eye on the exit door, Allen and Hendo looked leaden footed and for all the talk of Balotelli being lazy Danny wasn't exactly busting a gut to close down their back 4.
In fact bar Sakho and Phil everyone else had below par games.
When you get so many players having an off day you are in trouble and when you are playing a decent side on one of their good days then you are in even more trouble.
That was the story of today, not tactics or formations.

Its everything to do with tactics ,we may as well have sent details by fucking carrier pigeon to Van Gaal on how we're going to set up ,people need to be honest
here and state what they saw unfolding even before their first goal ,and then possibly explain just why this escaped the supposedly keen eye of the manager 

Yes players had off games ,but does that imply the manager should also be bereft of injecting a fresh approach to alter an opponents  dominance ,Rodgers was lost
out there today when simple changes would have caused Van Gaal to alter his tactics ...Lallana for one should have been replaced with Balotelli ,United looked
rattled when he took to the pitch ,defenders hate playing against him and he gets in their faces and creates havoc.

Our defence had no protection whatsoever so we were opened up way too many times in the first 10 fucking minutes than was comfortable ,even a half fit Lucas would
have negated the threat carried by of Herrera and Carrick who possibly couldn't believe the space and time they were afforded to pick a pass ,they pushed us back so
deep we had six in fucking midfield and a veritable chasm separating them from Sturridge.

Forgive me if I view correcting this as part of a Liverpool managers duties 

I do agree that it has to do with tactics. But our players who execute the tactics let us down immensely on the day. BR did change the tactics at half time by bringing on Gerrard and we could've gone on to at least draw the game, which is by no means a bad result; it would keep the status quo and we would still be on track for top 4 finish. But then again Gerrard let us down.

Is BR responsible for the first half? Yes because he is the manager. He probably should have thrown caution to the wind and bring on a sub after 10 mins but I rarely see any managers changing tactics after 10 mins. And he also probably could've lined up with Lucas instead of Allen but you can't really blame him for not using a just fit-again player. It's all could haves and should haves... but what really let us down are the under performing players and Gerrard's moment of madness.

Not sure why it has to be any one persons fault for the way we played y'day...some days you just don't cut it and the overwhelming commonality that we all have is huge disappointment. Disappointing to lose, but more in the manner that we lost....I don't mind losing much if we made a game of it, but we didn't and the form we showed was not top 4 form. I hope that it was just a bad day in the office and we should be fairer to the team as they've had an excellent period to get us within reach and we shouldn't forget that. It's 38 games in a season and as Kenny says, you add the points up at the end and you see where you are. I don't think it's all over, but if Man U kick on from here, then I don't see us getting it back.

As some have said already, we started to look tired a while back. For me Sterling is too distracted to do his job, Sturridge still isn't getting the service he needs and too much expectation was put on him this season (in terms of being realistic in what he could deliver).....the impact has not been huge since he came back.

Just hope that the break will do them good and we hit the ground running for the last 8 games. Plenty of points still up for grabs and no doubt a few twists and turns ahead.....less happy that we could easily fall down the table rather than climb it at the moment, but heyho

maguskwt » Mar 23rd, '15, 11:21 wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:43 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:02 pm wrote:The bottom line is that we just didn't play well enough, in the first half hour Moreno and Skrtel probably had a better passing average for United than Carrick and Herrera, literally every time they touched the ball it went to a white shirt.
Sterling didn't look interested, he actually looked like a player with one eye on the exit door, Allen and Hendo looked leaden footed and for all the talk of Balotelli being lazy Danny wasn't exactly busting a gut to close down their back 4.
In fact bar Sakho and Phil everyone else had below par games.
When you get so many players having an off day you are in trouble and when you are playing a decent side on one of their good days then you are in even more trouble.
That was the story of today, not tactics or formations.

Its everything to do with tactics ,we may as well have sent details by fucking carrier pigeon to Van Gaal on how we're going to set up ,people need to be honest
here and state what they saw unfolding even before their first goal ,and then possibly explain just why this escaped the supposedly keen eye of the manager 

Yes players had off games ,but does that imply the manager should also be bereft of injecting a fresh approach to alter an opponents  dominance ,Rodgers was lost
out there today when simple changes would have caused Van Gaal to alter his tactics ...Lallana for one should have been replaced with Balotelli ,United looked
rattled when he took to the pitch ,defenders hate playing against him and he gets in their faces and creates havoc.

Our defence had no protection whatsoever so we were opened up way too many times in the first 10 fucking minutes than was comfortable ,even a half fit Lucas would
have negated the threat carried by of Herrera and Carrick who possibly couldn't believe the space and time they were afforded to pick a pass ,they pushed us back so
deep we had six in fucking midfield and a veritable chasm separating them from Sturridge.

Forgive me if I view correcting this as part of a Liverpool managers duties 

I do agree that it has to do with tactics. But our players who execute the tactics let us down immensely on the day. BR did change the tactics at half time by bringing on Gerrard and we could've gone on to at least draw the game, which is by no means a bad result; it would keep the status quo and we would still be on track for top 4 finish. But then again Gerrard let us down.

Is BR responsible for the first half? Yes because he is the manager. He probably should have thrown caution to the wind and bring on a sub after 10 mins but I rarely see any managers changing tactics after 10 mins. And he also probably could've lined up with Lucas instead of Allen but you can't really blame him for not using a just fit-again player. It's all could haves and should haves... but what really let us down are the under performing players and Gerrard's moment of madness.

BR should have changed it after 10mins, that is a mark of a good coach i.e. make changes when necessary, it was plain and simple to see after ten minutes that Can was getting bullied, BR should have changed it then, not wait for the 2nd half.

As for not using a "just a fit player", if that is the case, why have him on the bench in the first place!

LFC were rubbish from the start, BR sent SG on to save the team which backfired, then again, LFC should not have been in the position of needing to be saved. Everyone having a go at SG, imo, is just one of many things which has allowed BR to escape much of the  blame he deserves for rubbish management yesterday. He was well and truly outthought by an oldie.

1: BR had not made any move to counter the ball to Fellaini,  which is the thing that caused a lot of problems, so in essence, what was going  to change when SG was brought on? nothing as far as I can make out.
2: LFC play a back 3, therefore, there is a spare man, BR should have used the spare man to perhaps man mark Fellaini if required! Not ideal I suppose, but something like this needed to be done if LFC wanted to get a result.
3: Despite knowing that opposition teams had worked out LFC's system, he really didn't take any steps to change, until it was to late.

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:28 pm wrote:BR should have changed it after 10mins, that is a mark of a good coach i.e. make changes when necessary, it was plain and simple to see after ten minutes that Can was getting bullied, BR should have changed it then, not wait for the 2nd half.

As for not using a "just a fit player", if that is the case, why have him on the bencquotehe first place!

LFC were rubbish from the start, BR sent SG on to save the team which backfired, then again, LFC should not have been in the position of needing to be saved. Everyone having a go at SG, imo, is just one of many things which has allowed BR to escape much of the  blame he deserves for rubbish management yesterday. He was well and truly outthought by an oldie.

1: BR had not made any move to counter the ball to Fellaini,  which is the thing that caused a lot of problems, so in essence, what was going  to change when SG was brought on? nothing as far as I can make out.
2: LFC play a back 3, therefore, there is a spare man, BR should have used the spare man to perhaps man mark Fellaini if required! Not ideal I suppose, but something like this needed to be done if LFC wanted to get a result.
3: Despite knowing that opposition teams had worked out LFC's system, he really didn't take any steps to change, until it was to late.

Don't be ridiculous... No manager changes tactics after 10 mins unless there was a red card or we are already down a couple of goals! Not Rafa, not even Mourinho. A good manager would wait it out, try to weather the storm and not do a knee-jerk reaction and use up a substitution do early on. Which is what BR did at Swansea as well. Besides what was obviously happening in the first 10-20 mins was Fellaini bullying Can. But the goal didn't come from that side! So your logic is completely wrong. The goal came from the other side when moreno stormed forward too much and created a huge gap between him and Sakho which mata exploited.

maguskwt » Mar 23rd, '15, 14:11 wrote:

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:28 pm wrote:BR should have changed it after 10mins, that is a mark of a good coach i.e. make changes when necessary, it was plain and simple to see after ten minutes that Can was getting bullied, BR should have changed it then, not wait for the 2nd half.

As for not using a "just a fit player", if that is the case, why have him on the bencquotehe first place!

LFC were rubbish from the start, BR sent SG on to save the team which backfired, then again, LFC should not have been in the position of needing to be saved. Everyone having a go at SG, imo, is just one of many things which has allowed BR to escape much of the  blame he deserves for rubbish management yesterday. He was well and truly outthought by an oldie.

1: BR had not made any move to counter the ball to Fellaini,  which is the thing that caused a lot of problems, so in essence, what was going  to change when SG was brought on? nothing as far as I can make out.
2: LFC play a back 3, therefore, there is a spare man, BR should have used the spare man to perhaps man mark Fellaini if required! Not ideal I suppose, but something like this needed to be done if LFC wanted to get a result.
3: Despite knowing that opposition teams had worked out LFC's system, he really didn't take any steps to change, until it was to late.

Don't be ridiculous... No manager changes tactics after 10 mins unless there was a red card or we are already down a couple of goals! Not Rafa, not even Mourinho. A good manager would wait it out, try to weather the storm and not do a knee-jerk reaction and use up a substitution do early on. Which is what BR did at Swansea as well. Besides what was obviously happening in the first 10-20 mins was Fellaini bullying Can. But the goal didn't come from that side! So your logic is completely wrong. The goal came from the other side when moreno stormed forward too much and created a huge gap between him and Sakho which mata exploited.

For goodness sakes, just stop it with your "no manager would change it in the first 10mins etc. Don't even talk about what other managers would do, it doesn't cut it with me. A good coach/manager changes it when necessary end off (it was necessary in the first 10 minutes, because a change in formation would have helped along with different tactics) which BR bloody well didn't do did he!  Ah hello, did I say, the goal came from Can being bullied, read my post again. Stop your "love in" for BR, it's getting ridiculous.

Tactics and formation were found out ages ago, Allardyes mentioned it, so if you can spot that, anyone can.  BR is to blame when he can't figure out how to cope with the same tactics Allardyce employed many moons ago at Bolton, then he has problems. Plenty of other managers figured it out, he should have too. He should have realised Allen was not helping matters (passenger)and should have brought on Lucas.

Lallana and Sturridge both injured in this match and will miss International match, Sterling been playing with a broken toe and having pain killing injections

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:35 pm wrote:

maguskwt » Mar 23rd, '15, 14:11 wrote:

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:28 pm wrote:BR should have changed it after 10mins, that is a mark of a good coach i.e. make changes when necessary, it was plain and simple to see after ten minutes that Can was getting bullied, BR should have changed it then, not wait for the 2nd half.

As for not using a "just a fit player", if that is the case, why have him on the bencquotehe first place!

LFC were rubbish from the start, BR sent SG on to save the team which backfired, then again, LFC should not have been in the position of needing to be saved. Everyone having a go at SG, imo, is just one of many things which has allowed BR to escape much of the  blame he deserves for rubbish management yesterday. He was well and truly outthought by an oldie.

1: BR had not made any move to counter the ball to Fellaini,  which is the thing that caused a lot of problems, so in essence, what was going  to change when SG was brought on? nothing as far as I can make out.
2: LFC play a back 3, therefore, there is a spare man, BR should have used the spare man to perhaps man mark Fellaini if required! Not ideal I suppose, but something like this needed to be done if LFC wanted to get a result.
3: Despite knowing that opposition teams had worked out LFC's system, he really didn't take any steps to change, until it was to late.

Don't be ridiculous... No manager changes tactics after 10 mins unless there was a red card or we are already down a couple of goals! Not Rafa, not even Mourinho. A good manager would wait it out, try to weather the storm and not do a knee-jerk reaction and use up a substitution do early on. Which is what BR did at Swansea as well. Besides what was obviously happening in the first 10-20 mins was Fellaini bullying Can. But the goal didn't come from that side! So your logic is completely wrong. The goal came from the other side when moreno stormed forward too much and created a huge gap between him and Sakho which mata exploited.

For goodness sakes, just stop it with your "no manager would change it in the first 10mins etc. Don't even talk about what other managers would do, it doesn't cut it with me. A good coach/manager changes it when necessary end off (it was necessary in the first 10 minutes, because a change in formation would have helped along with different tactics) which BR bloody well didn't do did he!  Ah hello, did I say, the goal came from Can being bullied, read my post again. Stop your "love in" for BR, it's getting ridiculous.

Tactics and formation were found out ages ago, Allardyes mentioned it, so if you can spot that, anyone can.  BR is to blame when he can't figure out how to cope with the same tactics Allardyce employed many moons ago at Bolton, then he has problems. Plenty of other managers figured it out, he should have too. He should have realised Allen was not helping matters (passenger)and should have brought on Lucas.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Just because you put the words "end off" definitely doesn't make it so. Give me an instance where another manager, "a good coach/ manager" as you put it, changes things drastically after 10 mins without having a man down or being more than a goal down. Tactics and formation were found out ages ago? You mean the tactics and formation that brought us 11 wins and 13 games undefeated? What is ridiculous are the criticisms that you lot have on Rodgers. They are in hindsight and lazy. If he did that you lot would say he should've done this. If he did this, you lot would say he should've done that. It's feckin ridiculous. If you lot were consistent with your criticisms, I wouldn't be arguing for Rodgers here. Where were all of these criticisms when we were on the undefeated run? It was so obvious that Gerrard let the team down in this game, if he stayed on he could've been a hero and gave us at least a draw. The first half is on Rodgers yes, and no manager is perfect. There were seasons where the mancs were dominating and we would do a league double on them under Houllier. Get some feckin perspective.