Where we are at now - Current appraisal

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby stmichael » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:57 pm

In recent days we have seen the worst and best of Liverpool. A shocking (first-half) performance at Craven Cottage rewarded with a lucky win - three shots on target producing four goals. Then an excellent performance at Anfield punished with a draw. Bad finishing, yes, but bad offside flags played their part in the game last night, as did excellent last-gasp tackling and good goalkeeping.

But I'll ask you all a question. Who in their right mind on here was tipping Liverpool to do that well anyway? ???

The difficulty with assessing us at the moment is setting the benchmarks by which to judge the team fairly. A new manager and new players at a club who last season were so far off the pace that they may as well have been lapped. That represented gross underachievement, of course, worse still than the previous term in everything bar league position.

We can agree with Rafael Benitez though, that they are very much a work in progress. And he is playing at present without the two players who have done most to keep the Reds above the run of the Premiership in the past two seasons, the departed Michael Owen and the injured Steven Gerrard. Of course it will take time to sort things out.

At home, at least, we are certainly more entertaining. When did Liverpool last manage a 0-0 draw worth staying awake through?

We also appear to have a plan B now, or at least a more attacking plan A. Against Manchester City in August we overturned a half-time deficit at home for the first time since 1999, and at Fulham we repeated the feat away for the first time since 1991.

We can say that Xabi Alonso looks an excellent purchase. We can add that it is unlikely we have seen the best of him or some of his compatriots, though perhaps Josemi is being found out a little bit lately.

Djibril Cisse still seems to be playing a one-man game, rarely slotting into the team. The previously underused Milan Baros, on the other hand, is playing with guts and confidence. At Fulham he played with gallons of luck too, and at Anfield last night he proved that he deseves a starting place on Saturday.

You wonder, too, if Benitez is preparing a January sale, of Salif Diao if he can find any takers, maybe Harry Kewell unless he can find some sparkle soon, and Igor Biscan who - though it's not saying much - has never looked more like a footballer than at present.

The two plainest problems as I see it are our defence and the away form. If you look at it, the two kind of run together.

We won't achieve much if we consistently need Fulham-style miracles to avoid losing away from home.

Chris Kirkland needs to fulfil his promise now that he is at last fit; he has looked indecisive at important moments and was nutmegged on Saturday. But the bigger work is in front of him.

Whether Benitez can make a zonal defence system work with his current players, or buys new ones, or abandons the tactic, we need to be more solid.

That will be especially true in La Coruna and Monaco next month. Even if we have at last learnt to win when trailing, that will be far harder against those dastardly continentals with their 'possession football'.

So we must wait and watch to see how quickly, if at all, Benitez can complete his Anfield rejuvenation.

At least on Tuesday night's evidence we won't fall asleep finding out.  :)
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Postby 106-1093504160 » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:42 pm

agreed stmike, but how can three shots on goal produce 4 goals? ???
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Postby Ola Mr Benitez » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:50 pm

one of the goals was deflected from a shot that wasn't really "on goal"...

some good points.. in answer to the question, I don't believe we will do anything this year, and I'm not really too bothered as long as we close the gap on the "big 3"

Potentially this is a great team, missing a few pieces, Benitez knows what he is doing and he knows what he needs, unfortunately he will need a season to do it.
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Postby taff » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:55 pm

Three shots on target

I had genuine optimism after last night. This is with my admiration for Rafa who is the first to say that we are nowhere near where he wants us to be.

we are seeing performances from players we thought werent capable of it Traore for example and less tolerance to those who have not performed.

Slowly I think he is building a team with the right attitude and fight and desire to go forward but the next judgement will be January with who comes into the squad do they want to play for us and but into Rafas views

Can we expect one of those post xmas runs with SG back and some new blood perhaps ???
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Postby stmichael » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:10 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:I'm not really too bothered as long as we close the gap on the "big 3"

3 of the next 4 games are at home and are all winnable. you also wouldn't say that blackburn away should exactly "scare us". everton won't stay where they are. win our game in hand and we go two points ahead of manure who have to play arsenal this sunday.

things could certainly be a lot worse. :)
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Postby 106-1093504160 » Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:40 pm

hey, where the big one, f@ck the other pretenders

lfc forever
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Postby kindaconfused » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:12 pm

I don't think the problem is the defence, particularly when we aren't scoring goals. Its goals that win games not looking good or buzzing all over the park head down.

The main problem is in the attack, we still haven't found anyone to knock them in and until we do we aint going anywhere I'm afraid ???

W'e still seem to be playing zonal which has cost us one game at least and nearly another last night, so why continue? I don't know the answer do I have any explanation from Raf.

Not only are are forwards suffering a lack of goals but they're also not coming from the mid field, so where are they going to come from?

I think Raf needs a big wand that he can shake over the players cos we gotta get it sorted sooner or later.
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Postby kindaconfused » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:17 pm

While I realise we all want success for our team we need to be realistic as to where we are presently in terms of development and what we need to do for the future.

Some of us seem to be hanging are hat on Baros and Cisse coming good. Now there’s nothing wrong in that except that Baros has only shown true form while playing in the Europeans. Upon his return from those games his form has dropped considerably. Now this tells me the games in England are more tightly marked and he is struggling.

Cisse so far is a real lightweight and seems to panic when he gets the ball. Not sure what style he plays cos he’s never shown much so far. He does seem to panic when he gets the ball and rushes off with it and speed, comes across a defender and then runs into him trying to claim the foul, head up then he feels job done.

Recently Ferguson has been critical of himself for too many changes in the team, then what is Raf doing. Its all very well giving players a chance but do we have to do so many and do we need to play them in positions even I know is a wild card choice, Dioau and Riise spring immediately to mind.

Some members mention mid league position as a possibility and then there is criticism for lack of loyalty and some members see a top slot as a possibility. But to do this we need to be scoring goals with trusted forwards so the stats so far tell us this aint gonna happen.

Isn’t it time we put the dreams aside for a while and start viewing whats actually going on rather than dreaming what we see is better than it actually is. Its goals we need and now, Baros has had his chance, Cisse doesn’t look the part and Kewell has lost his touch, come January we need a quality proven striker so lets not kid ourselves anymore!
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Postby A.B. » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:32 pm

We are showing signs of progress and that is important with a new manager and players.

Rafael Benitez made Valencia into a class squad, they were average players who never thought of winning the La Liga. One Benitez took control it was a completely different story.

Benitez has an eye for talent. With him a player who is average but works his ****** off can improve and improve until eventually that player is briliant.

A lot of you are looking forward to the transfer market in January. But Benitez will not buy a player who is worth 20 million, he does not like to spend a huge amount of money on one player. He will buy the players he thinks we need and he will buy the players he knows.

At this point at time Mista will be here by January. Benitez left Valencia because there were some problems within the club and things did not get any better this year when Valencia refused to pay Benitez what he had earned.

Now currently Mista has not signed a new contract and isn't going to. There is only one thing that comes to mind and that is that he is going to walk out on a bosman in order to sign with us. Both Benitez and Mista have the same agents so Mista comming to us is a huge possibility.

Recently somebody pointed out that according to UEFA regulations Morientes will not be able to sign with us until next summer so do not get your hopes up. Expect to see one or two more Spanish players at Anfield. Some will have a problem with that but I could care less if midgets played for us as long as they got the job done.

Benitez knows the Spanish market very well and La Liga has some great talent, i.e. Xabi Alonso.
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Postby parchpea » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:50 pm

The only thing I know of Mista is that hes got a pretty good strike rate for Valencia. I dont recall seeing him play. I agree that it doesnt matter where the players come from so long as we are successful, but Im not comfortable with too many Spanish arriving. Surely Benitez can look beyond La Liga. I just feel like too many wont work somehow and we need more of a mix.
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Postby A.B. » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:00 pm

parchpea wrote:The only thing I know of Mista is that hes got a pretty good strike rate for Valencia. I dont recall seeing him play. I agree that it doesnt matter where the players come from so long as we are successful, but Im not comfortable with too many Spanish arriving. Surely Benitez can look beyond La Liga. I just feel like too many wont work somehow and we need more of a mix.

He knows the Spanish market the best, you can't expect him to go elsewhere such as in the Bundesliga,Seria A,etc...

He knows the players better in La Liga than anywhere else.

"I just feel like too many wont work somehow and we need more of a mix."

Arsene Wenger did what Benitez is doing now. Finding players he knows best. Unlike Houllier Wenger actually found talented French players who did not cost him a fortune and it payed off.
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Postby parchpea » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:45 am

If he can do what Wenger did then great. Ofcourse I am all for that. The guys Wenger purchased turned out to be best players in France. If Benitez brings in players that turn out to be the best Spain has on offer then its all good. I just dont want us buying Spanish for the sake of it. Lets widen the net a little.
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Postby 72-1090627431 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:03 pm

I think we are going in the right direction. With Alonso in the team, you hardly know Stevie G is missing!
They key will be when Nunez and Gerrard come back in a few weeks, cause most of the time we are playing Finnan on Right wing, which is costing us.

Im sure Benitez is going to buy 1 maybe two more players in January. Hopefully well be a lot stronger in the latter part of the season, when it matters most.

We've only lost away by the odd goal, the Fulham result, i never expected. i thought we were dead and buried at 2-0. BUt then again, whey did he play Diao instead of Alonso.

If we can get through the group phase of the champions league, we could be this seasons dark horses.

Not sure about Zonal marking though.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:05 pm

Hustlers Revenge wrote:If we can get through the group phase of the champions league, we could be this seasons dark horses.

LMFAO :D
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Postby Redtribe » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:34 pm

kindaconfused wrote:I don't think the problem is the defence, particularly when we aren't scoring goals. Its goals that win games not looking good or buzzing all over the park head down.

Then why are we the 3rd highest scorers in the league?
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