V.A.R and its impact on the game.

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby red till i die!! » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:01 pm

Before we go any further its "Video Assistant Referee" and not "Value Added Risk" so any talk of money, owners and manager belong elsewhere   :D .

V.A.R is only being trialled at the moment but as we seen in the F.A cup recently it can have a massive impact on the result of a game.

History
The International Football Association Board (IFAB), the body that determines the Laws of the Game, approved the use of video referees in trials during its June 2016 meeting.

A live trial of the VAR system began in August 2016 with a United Soccer League match between two Major League Soccer reserve sides.[3] Match referee Ismail Elfath reviewed two fouls during the match and, after consultation with video assistant referee Allen Chapman, decided to issue a red card and a yellow card in the respective incidents.[4] Video reviews were introduced the following month during an international friendly between France and Italy.

A "pitchside monitor" was introduced at the 2016 FIFA Club World Cup, allowing referees to review footage from the field.

The A-League in Australia became the first to use a VAR system in a professional league game on 7 April 2017, when Melbourne City played Adelaide United.[7] The game was completed without the VAR being called upon. The first intervention by a VAR in a professional league game was seen on 8 April when Wellington Phoenix hosted Sydney FC. The VAR identified an illegal handball in the penalty area and awarded Sydney FC a penalty. The game finished in a 1–1 draw.[8][9]

Major League Soccer in the United States introduced VARs in competitive matches during its 2017 season after the 2017 MLS All-Star Game on 2 August 2017.[10][11] Its first official use came during a match between the Philadelphia Union and FC Dallas, invalidating a goal from the latter over contact made between a Dallas player and Philadelphia's goalkeeper.[12]

The system was introduced in Poland in July 2017, in the 2017 Polish SuperCup[13] and 2017–18 Ekstraklasa.[14] Germany introduced the system during the 2017–18 Bundesliga[15] and Italy in the 2017–18 Serie A.[16] The system was introduced in Portugal in 2017 in the 2016–17 Taça de Portugal final,[17] afterwards in the 2017 Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira[18] and finally in the 2017-18 Primeira Liga.[19] FIFA plans to debut the system at the 2018 FIFA World Cup.[20]

The system was also used at the 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup and 2017 FIFA Confederations Cup.[21] A team of three officials were appointed to each match, referred to as VAR 1, VAR 2, and AVAR. Fifth officials were no longer appointed for the competitions. In the case of an assistant referee being injured, VAR 2 will then act as the assistant.

VAR made its debut in South America at the 2017 edition of Copa Libertadores. It was used starting in semifinals.

On 10 November 2017, during the England friendly with Germany at Wembley Stadium the Video assistant referee was trialled for the first time in an official UK game.

On 8 January 2018, VAR was trialled for the first time in England in the 2017–18 FA Cup game between Brighton & Hove Albion and Crystal Palace and the following day it was trialled for the first time in France in the Côte d'Azur derby game in the French League Cup — it was said to have worked well.

From January 2018, Italy will open the world's first VAR training centre in Coverciano.

Procedure

There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.[1]
Goals and whether there was a violation during the buildup
Penalty decisions
Red card decisions (second yellow cards are not reviewable)
Mistaken identity in awarding a red or yellow card

The standard for overturning the referee's original decision is that there has been a "clear error", sometimes expanded to "clear and obvious error".[2]

The process begins with the video assistant referee(s) and the assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors in the video operation room (VOR) with the assistance of the replay operator (RO). This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the VAR conducting a "check" to see if he or she should recommend a review to the referee. If the VAR finds nothing during the check, then communication with the referee is unnecessary, which is called a "silent check". If the VAR believes there has been a potential clear error, he or she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either (a) change the call on the advice of the VAR or (b) conduct an on-field review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline, called the referee review area (RRA), to review the video with the help of the review assistant (RA) or (c) decide that he/she is confident in the original call and not conduct an OFR. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but is not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in good attacking possibility.

The official signal for a video review is by the referee making the outline of a rectangle with his index fingers (indicating a video screen). This precedes both any OFR as well as any change in the original call. Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are to be cautioned with a yellow card. Players who enter the area where the referee conducts an OFR are also to be cautioned with a yellow card, and team officials who do so are to be dismissed.

There are guidelines the referee and the VAR should follow in conducting a video review. For example, slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offences, such as physical offences and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offence and whether a handball was deliberate. Reviews for goals, penalty kick decisions, and red cards for denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity cover the period back to the beginning of the "attacking possession phase" (APP), when the attacking team first gained possession of the ball or restarted play. Other reviews only cover the incident itself.

The VAR will be either a current or former referee. The VAR may be located in the stadium where the match is being played or at another location.

Personally I wouldn't be in favour of it if it is going to be used like it was in our match against West-Brom. While we did benefit from it, it caused a lot of confusion and delayed the game somewhat.
Who was it that called for it during that game ? was it the manager's or the players. Is anyone allowed to call for it if they feel they have been fouled in or around the box ?. Its bad enough looking at players waving fictitious cards at the referee but now will they be simulating TV screens as well.

The time added on and the time it takes to get a decision is also a problem. Klopp complained that it was the TV company, in this case BT Sports who decided what time should be added on. The time taken to also review the decision could also take the momentum out of a team and provide the other with a respite and time to regroup. In certain rough games like derbys it could mean a lot of stoppages and time added on which imo will eventually ruin the game.

Sometimes things happen in football and they go your way or they don't. I think it evens itself out in the end but I do understand some decisions are more costly to some teams like, if a team got relegated because of an incident a Ref missed or Likewise if a team missed out in a semi-final or even in a final itself. Often smaller clubs complain that they are the victims of Refs giving the decision to big clubs which we all have seen so it could put an end to that.

I would be in total favour if the system was clearer and restricted so it doesn't allow for games to run over 50 minutes a half. If only managers were given the calls it would be better but they have only a chance to use maybe 2 calls per half where they can request the Ref to review a decision. If they fail and are seeing to be using it just for the sake of it then they forfeit one of their remaining chances.

What can't be allowed to happen is every single Goal that gets scored or Penalty that is given has to be decided by VAR.

What do others think ?..
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Postby redshade » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:19 pm

V.A.R is very good as it clears out mistakes but like you said mate it is very very time consuming. The flow of the game goes and it can ruin a team who has the upper hand. Maybe they can work on speeding up decision time.

Isn't it the Ref who decides if he wants to use it when his unsure of an incident??...

Also every ground should have a massive screen where the fans can view what is happening. A lot of confusion occurs without the screen and fans don't even know what the heck is going on.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:36 pm

red till i die!! » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 am wrote:Before we go any further its "Video Assistant Referee" and not "Value Added Risk" so any talk of money, owners and manager belong elsewhere   :D .

V.A.R is only being trialled at the moment but as we seen in the F.A cup recently it can have a massive impact on the result of a game.

History
The International Football Association Board (IFAB), the body that determines the Laws of the Game, approved the use of video referees in trials during its June 2016 meeting.

A live trial of the VAR system began in August 2016 with a United Soccer League match between two Major League Soccer reserve sides.[3] Match referee Ismail Elfath reviewed two fouls during the match and, after consultation with video assistant referee Allen Chapman, decided to issue a red card and a yellow card in the respective incidents.[4] Video reviews were introduced the following month during an international friendly between France and Italy.

A "pitchside monitor" was introduced at the 2016 FIFA Club World Cup, allowing referees to review footage from the field.

The A-League in Australia became the first to use a VAR system in a professional league game on 7 April 2017, when Melbourne City played Adelaide United.[7] The game was completed without the VAR being called upon. The first intervention by a VAR in a professional league game was seen on 8 April when Wellington Phoenix hosted Sydney FC. The VAR identified an illegal handball in the penalty area and awarded Sydney FC a penalty. The game finished in a 1–1 draw.[8][9]

Major League Soccer in the United States introduced VARs in competitive matches during its 2017 season after the 2017 MLS All-Star Game on 2 August 2017.[10][11] Its first official use came during a match between the Philadelphia Union and FC Dallas, invalidating a goal from the latter over contact made between a Dallas player and Philadelphia's goalkeeper.[12]

The system was introduced in Poland in July 2017, in the 2017 Polish SuperCup[13] and 2017–18 Ekstraklasa.[14] Germany introduced the system during the 2017–18 Bundesliga[15] and Italy in the 2017–18 Serie A.[16] The system was introduced in Portugal in 2017 in the 2016–17 Taça de Portugal final,[17] afterwards in the 2017 Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira[18] and finally in the 2017-18 Primeira Liga.[19] FIFA plans to debut the system at the 2018 FIFA World Cup.[20]

The system was also used at the 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup and 2017 FIFA Confederations Cup.[21] A team of three officials were appointed to each match, referred to as VAR 1, VAR 2, and AVAR. Fifth officials were no longer appointed for the competitions. In the case of an assistant referee being injured, VAR 2 will then act as the assistant.

VAR made its debut in South America at the 2017 edition of Copa Libertadores. It was used starting in semifinals.

On 10 November 2017, during the England friendly with Germany at Wembley Stadium the Video assistant referee was trialled for the first time in an official UK game.

On 8 January 2018, VAR was trialled for the first time in England in the 2017–18 FA Cup game between Brighton & Hove Albion and Crystal Palace and the following day it was trialled for the first time in France in the Côte d'Azur derby game in the French League Cup — it was said to have worked well.

From January 2018, Italy will open the world's first VAR training centre in Coverciano.

Procedure

There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.[1]
Goals and whether there was a violation during the buildup
Penalty decisions
Red card decisions (second yellow cards are not reviewable)
Mistaken identity in awarding a red or yellow card

The standard for overturning the referee's original decision is that there has been a "clear error", sometimes expanded to "clear and obvious error".[2]

The process begins with the video assistant referee(s) and the assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors in the video operation room (VOR) with the assistance of the replay operator (RO). This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the VAR conducting a "check" to see if he or she should recommend a review to the referee. If the VAR finds nothing during the check, then communication with the referee is unnecessary, which is called a "silent check". If the VAR believes there has been a potential clear error, he or she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either (a) change the call on the advice of the VAR or (b) conduct an on-field review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline, called the referee review area (RRA), to review the video with the help of the review assistant (RA) or (c) decide that he/she is confident in the original call and not conduct an OFR. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but is not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in good attacking possibility.

The official signal for a video review is by the referee making the outline of a rectangle with his index fingers (indicating a video screen). This precedes both any OFR as well as any change in the original call. Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are to be cautioned with a yellow card. Players who enter the area where the referee conducts an OFR are also to be cautioned with a yellow card, and team officials who do so are to be dismissed.

There are guidelines the referee and the VAR should follow in conducting a video review. For example, slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offences, such as physical offences and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offence and whether a handball was deliberate. Reviews for goals, penalty kick decisions, and red cards for denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity cover the period back to the beginning of the "attacking possession phase" (APP), when the attacking team first gained possession of the ball or restarted play. Other reviews only cover the incident itself.

The VAR will be either a current or former referee. The VAR may be located in the stadium where the match is being played or at another location.

Personally I wouldn't be in favour of it if it is going to be used like it was in our match against West-Brom. While we did benefit from it, it caused a lot of confusion and delayed the game somewhat.
Who was it that called for it during that game ? was it the manager's or the players. Is anyone allowed to call for it if they feel they have been fouled in or around the box ?. Its bad enough looking at players waving fictitious cards at the referee but now will they be simulating TV screens as well.

The time added on and the time it takes to get a decision is also a problem. Klopp complained that it was the TV company, in this case BT Sports who decided what time should be added on. The time taken to also review the decision could also take the momentum out of a team and provide the other with a respite and time to regroup. In certain rough games like derbys it could mean a lot of stoppages and time added on which imo will eventually ruin the game.

Sometimes things happen in football and they go your way or they don't. I think it evens itself out in the end but I do understand some decisions are more costly to some teams like, if a team got relegated because of an incident a Ref missed or Likewise if a team missed out in a semi-final or even in a final itself. Often smaller clubs complain that they are the victims of Refs giving the decision to big clubs which we all have seen so it could put an end to that.

I would be in total favour if the system was clearer and restricted so it doesn't allow for games to run over 50 minutes a half. If only managers were given the calls it would be better but they have only a chance to use maybe 2 calls per half where they can request the Ref to review a decision. If they fail and are seeing to be using it just for the sake of it then they forfeit one of their remaining chances.

What can't be allowed to happen is every single Goal that gets scored or Penalty that is given has to be decided by VAR.

What do others think ?..


I'm not a fan,I suppose in principle its the game moving on, but a system that all but eradicates the flow of this game hinders the reason we love it so much,imo its what sets football apart from the tailored set ups utilized in other sports. I mean contentious decisions are part and parcel of the game and God knows we've been subject to a fair few ourselves over the years,but for me this sport that has thus far managed to stave off the clamor for radical change pertaining to introducing video and the future censure that entails,is just another attempt to stamp and package this game and bracket it with the stalling drawn out shite that unfolds in American sports.

In truth mate,its just another attempt to make football more manageable and less prone to error for those devoid of a true devotion or even an understanding of why the game is so beloved.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:02 pm

It's obvious what will happen with this.
It will waste approximately. Up to five mins per decision, making matches longer, and our game becoming like American Football.

On the plus side, most crucial decisions will be made CORRECTLY.
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Postby red till i die!! » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:30 pm

redshade » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:19 pm wrote:
Isn't it the Ref who decides if he wants to use it when his unsure of an incident??...


I think the V.A.R can interfere if they think the ref has missed something.

This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the VAR conducting a "check" to see if he or she should recommend a review to the referee.
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Postby red till i die!! » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:33 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:36 pm wrote:[quote="[url=http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1296371#p1296371]red till i die!! » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 am[/urlWhat do others think ?..


I'm not a fan,I suppose in principle its the game moving on, but a system that all but eradicates the flow of this game hinders the reason we love it so much,imo its what sets football apart from the tailored set ups utilized in other sports. I mean contentious decisions are part and parcel of the game and God knows we've been subject to a fair few ourselves over the years,but for me this sport that has thus far managed to stave off the clamor for radical change pertaining to introducing video and the future censure that entails,is just another attempt to stamp and package this game and bracket it with the stalling drawn out shite that unfolds in American sports.

In truth mate,its just another attempt to make football more manageable and less prone to error for those devoid of a true devotion or even an understanding of why the game is so beloved.[/quote]

Very well said RBG :nod
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Postby kazza » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:50 am

I'd like to know how many titles Utd would not have won had this been done 15 years ago.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:45 pm

We could have done with VAR today.

2 sh*te decisions by a bottle boy Referee
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