The Midfield situation and formation..

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Ghost of Shankly » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:44 pm

I think Klopp has got his tactics wrong with our Midfield. Having watched every game this season, he plays three in Midfield in every match, and I don't think our Midfielders are good enough to carry it off.
He plays Henderson Can and Wjnaldum, or Even Milner in most games, and I don't think they are strong enough to defend against counter attacks, like against City and Spurs, we got run ragged.it's easy to get overrun against attacking teams.
Sometimes you have to play 4/5 in midfield, or have a sweeper to compensate in certain games.
If we had a strong midfield of Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano etc, then yes, play 3. But our current personnel are not up to the job of attacking, and defending in the same matches. As well as having a shaky defence also.
I feel this is suicide by Klopp in certain matches. Our midfield are not world class, and I think the manager is very nieve in his tactics,(ie: playing 3 average midfielders away at Spurs)  has no plan B or imagination.. He's deluded if he thinks that will win you a league title, playing 4-3-3 in every match.
Discuss...
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:02 pm

This is something well worth discussing. Our midfield has been poor for years, it's been going downhill since Alonso left and although Kenny and Brendan tried to arrest the slide by bringing in the likes of Hendo, Charlie Adam, Joe Allen and Emre Can we've never really got anywhere near replicating the type of quality we saw under Rafa.
What I would say though is that I think Jurgen's system does a pretty good job of masking our deficiencies in the middle of the park, we do tend to have the lions share of possession whoever we play, even against teams like City, Chelsea and United who have far better individual players in their midfields (e.g Pogba, Gundogan, Kante etc) we still tend to achieve parity if not actually shade the possession stats.
One positive is that I do think there is the makings of a Rafa-esque type midfield potentially on the horizon, if we can keep hold of Phil I think a midfield 3 of Coutinho, Keita plus someone like that Goretzka who we are being linked with could be really something special. A great midfield is there next season (or maybe even January) if the club wants it, the question is does it want it enough though?
We would have to stick to our guns over the Phil thing and spend a few bob on Goretzka, not easy but not impossible either.
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Postby red till i die!! » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:01 pm

It won't change unless we get rid of the players we currently have lining up every week. Whats more is that should we lose Emre and Coutinho (which is looking likely we will lose both) it will further deplete the quality we have and it will leave way to much work to be done on transfers which we will make a balls of again.
If the Keita deal goes through it will be a plus but no where near enough to compensate for losing the other 2. A midfield next season of Henderson, Wijnaldum, Chamberlain and Keita is probably worse than what we currently field as neither of those players have the goals or assists that Phil brings.

If Klopp wants to persist with his balls out approach then he needs to have players with balls that fit into what he wants because its not working mostly down to the players not being able to play that way. At the rate he is signing players it will take years to get what he wants and I have no confidence they will fix it by this time next year. At this stage of Jurgens tenure he should be fielding at least 9 of his players in a starting line up because what we are doing is pi$$ing against the wind with this bunch. Over the next 2 windows he needs to either sign at least 6 players walking into that starting 11 or change what he is at better suited to the players he has.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:22 pm

He needs to buy more than Keita for our Midfield next summer, especially if Coutinho is going, the rest are not of the required quality and Klopp has shown he does not recruit big in the transfer market, so his project is going to take years to implement, at a snails pace. Next season if couts goes, we'll have a midfield of hendo, can, wjnaldum, oxlade-chamberlain and llalana, and keita. It's hardly gonna win us the league is it. :(
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:43 pm

Oxlade-chamberlain needs to start more often. And ahead of Milner, hendo or Can, he can offer more in attack.
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Postby Pig Catcher » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:59 pm

For me, this has been the worst performing part of our team this season. I think the theories that our defenders are useless and our attackers don’t have the qualities to break down teams who sit deep are red hearings.

None of our CM read the game that well from a defensive point of view. When we have the ball, Henderson is hardly ever in a position to stop the counter attack. When we have the ball, he doesn’t do those little looks over his shoulder to see where his defenders are the way Alonso, Hamann and Masch did. And none of our CM are particularly creative so we’ve ended up playing Phil there.

This area of the team needs major surgery IMO and hopefully Keita is just the start.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:33 pm

It's all down to tracking back - and the fact so few of our midfielders do it. That's why we get caught out so often, with our defenders pushing forward to make up the ground that should be covered by Henderson and Can.  Kieta will be a huge start and he'll replace Can, but we need another central midfielder to replace Henderson.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:14 pm

Need a good holding midfielder, and those like keita, with cutting edge. That's the only way your gonna win stuff.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:55 pm

I personally, when all fit, would play a midfield of Coutinho, llalana and wjnaldum/oxlade-chamberlain, ahead of hendo and Can, who should warm the bench.  That would probably fit in better with our attacking style.
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Postby redshade » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:14 am

This is what i think Klopp will set out for Mid/Atk

         Hendo
    Lallana Coutinho

Salah              Mane

       Firmino


Wijnaldum, Can, Ox will be rotated when required.
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Postby metalhead » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:56 pm

I'm one of those who don't want to see Henderson anywhere near the DM position, let alone the starting XI as I prefer Can over there.

Hopefully when Lallana is fit we can drop Henderson and play 3 of Can, Lallana and Gini while we push Coutinho further up.

Please, no more Henderson
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Postby only me » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:14 pm

In a weird way Klopps almost always prefers this conservative trio of Hendo-Can-Gini...I would love to See Lallana take Can or Hendo's place but i suspect Klopp prefers this system.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:24 pm

only me » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:14 pm wrote:In a weird way Klopps almost always prefers this conservative trio of Hendo-Can-Gini...I would love to See Lallana take Can or Hendo's place but i suspect Klopp prefers this system.


That's also down to the fact we have had injuries, is why he plays those three. hopefully that will change. Hendo/ Can are not good enough to start every game and should be rotated.
I'd play Oxlaide-Chamberlain on the right side of Midfield for at least half of each league game. He has that great pace to beat players ,like Salah, and can cross the ball into the box. That is his main strength.
If you just play him for 20 mins in matches, he'll struggle to find any form.
:rasp
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:30 pm

Good to see llalana back. At last
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Postby Pig Catcher » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Although we were winning 3-0 at half time, I thought our midfield got completely out-played. In general the midfield has been poor this season but Henderson and Wijnaldum were non-exisitent on Tuesday. Unfortunately I don’t see a solution in the squad so this is one of those situations which will need to be fixed in the transfer market.
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