Liverpool FC Forum

[Chelsea forever.]

-----NOT BY ME-----

Liverpool have had a disaster of a summer and are probably now worse off than they were this time a year ago. For all their cash and prestige from winning the CL their transfer dealings this summer have overall been a failure. They've managed to sign two players who are better than what they already had: The keeper Reina, and the midfielder Sissoko. But otherwise they have gone sideways or backwards: Crouch in for Baros and, err, Zenden and some youth teamers in for Smicer, Nunez, Diouf and a stack of others.

But it is their failures in the transfer market that are far more noteable than their 'successes' like Zenden and Crouch. They must now take the title from Spurs for the most 'nearly' signings. Look at their efforts to sign a right winger:

They enquired about Joaquin, but didn't proceed to bid.
Then they bid for Figo - but he shunned them for Inter
Then they bid for and signed Gonzales - but he couldn't get a work permit
Then they were in for Giannakopoulos - but he shunned them for the bright lights at Bolton
Then they were in for Solano - but he shunned them for Newcastle
Then they made a desperate last minute bid for Simao - but failed.

While they were doing all this they got rid of their existing wide options in Diouf, Nunez and Smicer - expecting them to be replaced. But they were not and now they've got nobody. The best they can do is stick a non right winger out there, like Garcia or Finnan or maybe Cisse.

That is a disaster for them. Their big money signing was Crouch. Now I rate Crouch a lot higher than most people do, but he needs crosses coming into him to be a danger. They've got nobody on the right to deliver him the crosses he needs, and on the left they've got to choose between Zenden and Kewell. Zenden can't cross to save himself and Kewell hasn't played a decent game for two years. If Liverpool can't find a reliable source of crosses for Crouch he'll be diabolical. Their failure to secure a winger is a complete disaster!

Their efforts to sign a Centre Back have been almost as comical. They've been in for Ibaniz, Milto, Andrade, Bonera and several others - but got nobody. While they were trying to sign someone they let their existing cover in Pelligrino go - expecting him to be replaced. But he wasn't. Now they are paper thin at the back and will be in big trouble if anything happens to Carragher or Hyppia. As an experiment in their options they tried their failed right back signing from last season (Josemi) at centreback against Moscow.

But their efforts on a striker really take the cake. Morientes who joined in January has been a complete lemon. Then they add Crouch (I actually think he is a good signing if they can get crosses to him, but that isn't looking likely at the moment) and sell their best striker in Baros. When there is a hint that Owen might be available they run up and down all over Europe offering Cisse to anybody who will listen as a way to fund the move. Cisse gets severely off and Owen shuns them for Newcastle anyway. Nice bit of business that by Madrid. Buy for 10 million and sell a year later for 17 million. Not great business by Liverpool.

How must our nearly man Steven Gerrard be feeling today? He'll be reading the papers and seeing the summary of summer transfer activity: Chelsea - Crespo, Del Horno, Essien and SWP. Liverpool - Reina, Sissoko, Crouch and Zenden. I can't see that putting too much of a dint in the 37 point gap between us, and I suspect Gerrard can't either. I wonder if there is a little knot of nervous tension forming in the pit of his stomach today.

And Benitez as well. He walked out on Valencia because the board didn't give him the resources they promised. Well Liverpool earned almost 31 million Euros from the CL last season (link), but if you discount the money from the players they've sold like Baros and Diouf they have only spent a net of 5 million on new players. He can't be happy with that, especially as most of their failures to sign players were over money. I wonder if now he will be more inclined to talk when the likes of Barcelona or Inter come and enquire about his availability

----------------------------

A lot of fair points there. I think it will be difficult for you to utilise Crouch. You need someone to put in those devastating corsses and you dont have anyone. I would have thought Pennant (brum) would be a good coup, but obviously Rafa has other ideas.

The Simao deal failing is a huge blow. Like I said before he is the best player in the Portugal league and I can understand why they wanted more money.

It is going to be a tough task till Jan, and an even tougher task to make the signings in Jan.

All the best.

Cheers

[matrix]

-----NOT BY ME-----

Liverpool have had a disaster of a summer and are probably now worse off than they were this time a year ago. For all their cash and prestige from winning the CL their transfer dealings this summer have overall been a failure. They've managed to sign two players who are better than what they already had: The keeper Reina, and the midfielder Sissoko. But otherwise they have gone sideways or backwards: Crouch in for Baros and, err, Zenden and some youth teamers in for Smicer, Nunez, Diouf and a stack of others.

But it is their failures in the transfer market that are far more noteable than their 'successes' like Zenden and Crouch. They must now take the title from Spurs for the most 'nearly' signings. Look at their efforts to sign a right winger:

They enquired about Joaquin, but didn't proceed to bid.
Then they bid for Figo - but he shunned them for Inter
Then they bid for and signed Gonzales - but he couldn't get a work permit
Then they were in for Giannakopoulos - but he shunned them for the bright lights at Bolton
Then they were in for Solano - but he shunned them for Newcastle
Then they made a desperate last minute bid for Simao - but failed.

While they were doing all this they got rid of their existing wide options in Diouf, Nunez and Smicer - expecting them to be replaced. But they were not and now they've got nobody. The best they can do is stick a non right winger out there, like Garcia or Finnan or maybe Cisse.

That is a disaster for them. Their big money signing was Crouch. Now I rate Crouch a lot higher than most people do, but he needs crosses coming into him to be a danger. They've got nobody on the right to deliver him the crosses he needs, and on the left they've got to choose between Zenden and Kewell. Zenden can't cross to save himself and Kewell hasn't played a decent game for two years. If Liverpool can't find a reliable source of crosses for Crouch he'll be diabolical. Their failure to secure a winger is a complete disaster!

Their efforts to sign a Centre Back have been almost as comical. They've been in for Ibaniz, Milto, Andrade, Bonera and several others - but got nobody. While they were trying to sign someone they let their existing cover in Pelligrino go - expecting him to be replaced. But he wasn't. Now they are paper thin at the back and will be in big trouble if anything happens to Carragher or Hyppia. As an experiment in their options they tried their failed right back signing from last season (Josemi) at centreback against Moscow.

But their efforts on a striker really take the cake. Morientes who joined in January has been a complete lemon. Then they add Crouch (I actually think he is a good signing if they can get crosses to him, but that isn't looking likely at the moment) and sell their best striker in Baros. When there is a hint that Owen might be available they run up and down all over Europe offering Cisse to anybody who will listen as a way to fund the move. Cisse gets severely off and Owen shuns them for Newcastle anyway. Nice bit of business that by Madrid. Buy for 10 million and sell a year later for 17 million. Not great business by Liverpool.

How must our nearly man Steven Gerrard be feeling today? He'll be reading the papers and seeing the summary of summer transfer activity: Chelsea - Crespo, Del Horno, Essien and SWP. Liverpool - Reina, Sissoko, Crouch and Zenden. I can't see that putting too much of a dint in the 37 point gap between us, and I suspect Gerrard can't either. I wonder if there is a little knot of nervous tension forming in the pit of his stomach today.

And Benitez as well. He walked out on Valencia because the board didn't give him the resources they promised. Well Liverpool earned almost 31 million Euros from the CL last season (link), but if you discount the money from the players they've sold like Baros and Diouf they have only spent a net of 5 million on new players. He can't be happy with that, especially as most of their failures to sign players were over money. I wonder if now he will be more inclined to talk when the likes of Barcelona or Inter come and enquire about his availability

----------------------------

A lot of fair points there. I think it will be difficult for you to utilise Crouch. You need someone to put in those devastating corsses and you dont have anyone. I would have thought Pennant (brum) would be a good coup, but obviously Rafa has other ideas.

The Simao deal failing is a huge blow. Like I said before he is the best player in the Portugal league and I can understand why they wanted more money.

It is going to be a tough task till Jan, and an even tougher task to make the signings in Jan.

All the best.

Cheers

not a bad poste cf  dont you think benfica were asking a hugh amount of money for simao,   your right about the rw we will have a struggle this season   

[Chelsea forever.]

I think

(1) They upped their bid because they knew you wouldnt pay and they didnt want to sell him and at the same time didnt want him to think that they wernt ready to accept a higher bid - so they said 14M knowing Liverpool will say no and Simao will say well they were ready to sell but the English club declined

(2) I think a price of 12-15M is fair for him as he is the best player in Portugal and is a hugh talent with a lot of potential.

--

Its strange the way Rafa has worked this transfer market. Reina is a decent buy, Sisoko is a good buy, Zenden will do well on and off. Crouch is pretty much useless now since there are no corsses coming in, however he will play bit part.

ITs also strange how this fellow says you spent 5M, I think (if true) that is not the right thing to do, espically when Rafa wants to build a team.

Iv always thought he wanted to build it around Alonso, but now that Gerrard stays it will be interesting to see how he makes use of what he has at his disposal.

Cheers

[RED ANT]

unfortunatly the truth hurts and theres a lot of truth in that article.

[Tiiger]

but if you discount the money from the players they've sold like Baros and Diouf they have only spent a net of 5 million on new players. He can't be happy with that, especially as most of their failures to sign players were over money.

He knows nothing about Liverpool, neither mathmatics.

off!

[PepeMomo]

But as far as you may see, Crouch is not kind of a pure target man who only works on crosses and headers. 

Very unlikely he will score a lot with his headers, but for sure he can be a man in the box to rectify those ugly crosses from our "wingers" like Cisse or Sinama.

It's a blow that we missed out on a series of quality wingers.



Somehow I think the Owen transfer has kept Rafa from making the signing he wants over the past 3 weeks or so, as apparently he held a very different stance to top men Parry and Moore on bringing back Owen. 

Surely Rafa did not do a perfect job in the transfer market this summer but should he take all the blame?

[Chelsea forever.]

Somehow I think the Owen transfer has kept Rafa from making the signing he wants over the past 3 weeks or so, as apparently he held a very different stance to top men Parry and Moore on bringing back Owen. 

I disagree. Owen always said HIS first choice was Liverpool and Rafa always said HIS first choice was RWF and CB. Iv always said Rafa never wanted him and if the board really wanted to go all out and get him then they would have stepped in much before Newcastle and sorted out the deal as the player wanted a move and Madrid wanted to sell. Instead they waited for Newcastle to make a 17M bid (an offer no club would refuse) and then stepped in with a lower bid which they knew Madrid would never accept.

Surely Rafa did not do a perfect job in the transfer market this summer but should he take all the blame?

Thats a tough one. I think he should have kept Milan till he found a good replacement, he should have confirmed a lot of deals in the very beginning. I cant say how things went as I was not physically present in all the meetings and I dont know anyone from the club. But from the looks of things he has failed in making his first choice signing in almost all positions. I think its shocking to say the least that Liverpool did not invest in an attacking/creative player. I cannont fathom how no one from the club thought it would be necessary to buy a creative spark who can produce the extraodinary and make/score goals.

I also fail to understand why Milan was not replaced, or why he was sold in the first place. Fernando is just not IT and everyone knew that. Milan has moved and already scored more goals than Fernando.

It is going to be a tough task ahead, Kewell will never play 2 games in a row as his bones seem to be made of clay. Risse is 2nd choice now and Gerrard, Alonso, Garcia and Cisse will have to create/score all the goals.

Good luck.

[MilitiaRusher]

But as far as you may see, Crouch is not kind of a pure target man who only works on crosses and headers. 

Very unlikely he will score a lot with his headers, but for sure he can be a man in the box to rectify those ugly crosses from our "wingers" like Cisse or Sinama.

It's a blow that we missed out on a series of quality wingers.



Somehow I think the Owen transfer has kept Rafa from making the signing he wants over the past 3 weeks or so, as apparently he held a very different stance to top men Parry and Moore on bringing back Owen. 

Surely Rafa did not do a perfect job in the transfer market this summer but should he take all the blame?

There is no one we should blame. Only should be start talking about how well Rafa has been dealing in the trasnfer market when we start playing games.

[stanley park]

we have missed a massive opportunity to improve our already inadequate squad.i for one have not been impressed with the style of play so far in the C.L. or in the first couple of league games,but it's still early day's.but to miss out on so many targets is really worrying,lesser sides have spent much more wisely,and i think we could well struggle to compete for fourth place,has for breaking the strangle hold of chelsea,arsenal,and the mancs,i dont think so,not with this squad.where's all the money gone?we made a packet out of winning the champions league,and all the spin off's.we even made a last minute effort to sign solano,only even he decided to sign for newcastle.let's be honest,it dosen't look good.we have a long hard season ahead.we had a weak squad last year.have we a stronger squad this year?

[NiftyNeil]

I've been defending Parry and the board for the last couple of days, but after yesterdays failings, I have changed my opinion.
They have dragged their feet from the minute the last season ended.
It all started with the Steven Gerrard saga. The board failed to make an approach, which unsettled Stevie. Then we dragged our heels about Michael Owen. Owen has said openly, that he signed for NU because he didn't think we could sort the transfer out in a couple of days (since we left that until the last minute)
The the Simao debacle!
PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT!

[roey316]

There is definately something wrong here, how can we let players go (I agree with every player he has sold) and not have the replacements in the door before you shift the sh!te out?! You just knew Benfica were going to move the goalposts last minute because they didnt want the lad to leave and he doesnt seem that bothered that hes missed out, he aint ripping up his contract as we speak or nowt.

As for Michael Owen, why oh why oh why didnt he just turn round and say to Madrid, "I dont want to play for Newcastle, I want to play for Liverpool"?? It would have made Newcastles bid redundant and then they may as well have withdrawn it, like Lyon did with Baros.

I think Rafa only let Milan, Pellegrino and Nunez go because he was under the impression that he would get full, undisputed backing from the board to replace them, we won the champions league for gods sake, I dont care what anyone says, we have the money, the Liverpool board dont want to pay a "rich club markup" like Manure and Chelski, if teams dont know how rich you are or are not, they cant take the attitide of "You want him, hes gonna cost you" because they know your not in a finiancial position to do so.

It loathes me to say it, but that post speaks a lot of truth, there is now a massive void on that right hand side and unless Rafa changes tactics and puts three central midfielders in (Xabi, Stevie and Momo/Hamann) and have one player in a free role (Garcia, Kewell or to a lesser extent, Zenden) behind two strikers, then it aint going to work.
If you put Finnan right side midfield, you have to play Josemi right back, and hes not good enough.
If you put Garcia or Kewell over there it isnt going to work because they both prefer their left foot.

It will be really interesting to see how Rafa copes with this til Janurary, I for one am worried!!

[Judge]

oh no, not another negative thread

[lakes10]

we are taking a lot of stick on the radio and on the bbc,
but this i was i think : liverpool left is late to get the big name players due to liverpool thinking that they are a big name, yes they are a big name in the uk but still dont rank in some top players minds a a top rank team, yes they won the CL but many seen the off forum in the prem that they were lucky to even be aloud in it.Benitez let it been known only in the last few days to the  players he wanted and by doing so he was thinking that the players would run to him at a drop of a hat, that was never going to happen, you could look at the liverpool board to place the blame on the top players and other top clubs but they should start to look closer to home and a lot closer at RB.
THIS IS NOT A GET RB OUT THING this is oh dear we fuc* up thing.
I belive the team is now very short of the players that i think we need in Europe and in the Prem, i dont see us getting closer to the top 3 in the prem this year, what we might do is win a cup based on the fact that we will use our young players(i do feel that we have some on the best young players now) to get us to a final in a domestic cup.

well thats almost word for word what was said on the radio

[RedWolf35]

I cannot believe that we have signed no-one

WHAT THE HELL HAVE THEY BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 6 WEEKS? ? ???

Last night was so depressing    first we miss out on Owen (agree that we should not have paid 17 mill   although he could have shown more balls & refused to go to Newcastle)  and then I sat at my computer for 4 hours holding my head in my hands   

Chelsea Forever   that post was very informative   thank you   however, bet your giggling as you write it     

[2520years]

If I remember rightly, Michael Owen was sold for £9m plus Nunez when he only had one year left on his contract.  He's been passed on to Newcastle for £17m with two or three years left on his contract.  Say Nunez was worth £2m, that's a profit of £6m for Real Madrid, which is good business.  That doesn't mean Liverpool have lost out.  We had to sell Owen to Real Madrid or they would have got him a year later for free.  I think the only club that have lost out are Newcastle, as they've paid over the odds (out of the desperation caused by their perennial underachievement).

As for Liverpool's failure to buy other players, that might be more worrying.  I admire Rafa's principle of not paying over the odds for players.  Maybe he's not used to spending large amounts, having been at smaller clubs in the past.  However, it's his job to make the team successful, and that might mean that he has to be flexible in his valuations.  At the end of the day he'll be judged on results and trophies.  The latter he's passed with flying colours, but Liverpool fans won't be completely satisfied until the Premiership trophy is squeezed into the already-bursting cabinet.