Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

So, quite a few people seem to be relatively sure that we'll struggle next season if we dont bring in 2 or 3 new players to improve on what we have.

To be honest, I think it's over exaggerated how far off we are from being a regular top4 side. Realistically, that's all we'll hope to be (same with Tottenham, Arsneal, and 14 other clubs in the league) unless we get billionaire owners who want to throw money at the club. Given the objective, I think what we're doing makes sense.



Our main issue last season was that we struggled to dominate and beat sides that are close to the bottom of the league. We did brilliantly against the top sides, undefeated against the top 8. Only one loss in 20 games against the top11, 6 defeats the entire season. In fact, even the 10 games we drew we probably should have gotten more from them.

Heres some facts people could probably do with remembering:

- Bournemouth are the only top10 side to score 2 or more goals against us in a game last season
- Our problems against the smaller sides were as much in attack as they were in defense. We dominated almost all the games we lost and missed significantly more chances than the opposition. See end of the post for more on this.
- We only lost one game when Matip & Lovren started in defense. Most of the goals we conceded were either counter attacks or crosses (Lovren imo is a very good CB and there arent many I'd take ahead of him, Van Dijk would be a huge addition for us mainly because of how dominant he is aerially).
- We only lost 2 games when both Mane and Coutinho have played some part. Some of our worst performances have come when one or both have missed the game, Salah should improve on that.

Bottom line is this, if we keep Coutinho and add Van Dijk and Salah, we'd have improved significantly from last season imo. Moreno is a year older and no one sees more of him than Klopp does. If he thinks he's improved over the past 12 months and is ready for a starting spot then I'd take his word for it. He's quick and can defend when hes on form. His problems where always with his concentration and defensive awareness (both things that can be improved on by managers, Danny Rose is a good example). We also have Sturridge and Henderson back so that should add to the competition for places in the side. Some are saying the squad is thin ? I think we need to trim it down.

Starting 11:

Mignolet
Clyne
VVD
Matip
Moreno
Henderson
Wijnaldum
Lallana
Coutinho
Mane
Firmino

2nd 11:

Karius
TAA
Lovren
Sakho
Robertson
Can
Milner
Woodburn
Salah
Sturridge
Origi

Others:
Ward
J.Gomez
Klavan
Flanagan
Grujic
Markovic
Kent
Solanke
Ings

Ojo
Brannagan
Ejaria
Allan








Burnley (away) 2-0
- No Mane
- Klavan at CB, no Matip
- 80%+ possession, 26 shots (burnley 3), 5 on target (burnley 2)

Bournemouth (away) 4-3
- Mane subbed off at 69mins with us winning 1-3
- Lucas at CB, no Matip
- No Lallana, no Coutinho
-They scored 3 in last 15mins
- 60%+ possession, 2 clearcut chances missed -0 to Bournemouth

West Ham (home) 2-2
- No Coutinho
- 67%+ possession, 19 shots (West Ham 8)

Sunderland (away) 2-2
- No Coutinho
- Klavan at CB, no Matip
- conceded from 2 penalties (equalizer in 84th min) after taking forward off and bringing Lucas on
- 70%+ possession, 21 shots (Sunderland 10), 15 on target (Sunderland 5), 2 clearcut chances missed -0 to Sunderland

Swansea (away) 3-2
- No Mane
- Klavan at CB, no Matip
- 73%+ possession, 16 shots (Swans 6), 5 on target (Swans 3)

Hull (away) 2-0
- Lucas at CB, no Lovren
- 72%+ possession, 22 shots (Hull 7)
- Terrible game for us going forward, caught on counter twice

Leicester (away) 3-1
- Lucas at CB, no Lovren
- 70% possession, 17 shots (Leicester 14)
- Poor down both ends of the pitch

Bournemouth (home) 2-2
- No Mane
- Klavan at CB, no Matip to start
- No Lallana
-Coutinho subbed off for Matip at 69 mins at 2-1 - they scored equalizer in 87th minute
- 66%+ possession, 20 shots (Bournemouth 8), 8 on target (Bournemouth 2), 3 clearcut chances missed - 2 to Bournemouth

Crystal Palace(home) 1-2
- No Mane
- 3 at the back
- No Lallana
-Subs only made in last 10mins, terrible bench
- Conceded both goals from crosses
- 72%+ possession, 14 shots (CP 7)

[woof woof !]

Good post aCe, with many valid points made.
However when you say

Some are saying the squad is thin ? I think we need to trim it down.

I have to disagree. If our ambition is to at least retain a top four finish AND have a real tilt in the Champions League as well as the domestic cup competitions we'll need a bit more than what we have now.
When all fit and functional we are certainly an outfit to be reckoned with, but a couple of injuries in key positions would deffo reduce out potency and given the additional games we may have to play there will more injuries and tired legs in the squad.
Christ knows how we'd fare if we dropped into the Europa League 

[red till i die!!]

Don't think it is as much about squad numbers as it is about quality. We will suffer injuries to key players especially when the games are coming fast and that same old problem will rear its head. Our defence isn't good enough because we are still handing out weak goals and that looks set to continue. If we sign Van Dijk then it will help but he is still a Southampton player.
At the moment I see us pretty much about the same as last year and that's in a fight for top 4 with hopefully a Cup. That's based on the squad we currently have but hopefully it improves over the next few weeks.

[aCe']

- If mods can be nice enough to move this to the correct section it would be great.

- On squad depth, we have 35 players in the 1st team squad. Thats more than most other clubs who play a similar number of games do. At least on paper, we have 10 extra players than we did for most of last season: Salah, Robertson, Solanke, Sakho, Flanagan, Gomez, Henerson, Markovic, Sturridge, Ings.

You jokingly mentioned the Europa league, I think its a strong possibility that we drop into the Europa league sooner or later. I also think most fans -if offered it now- would take finishing 6th and winning the Europa league to play in the CL again in 12 months.

If we want to challenge for the league, I dont think 2 or even 3 new signings would do it for us. We'd realistically need to spend 300mill+ bringing in top class GK, LB, CB, DM, ST. At today's prices that an average of 50-60mill per position which is something only City or Utd could afford.

[Pig Catcher]

But who are these 35 players Ace? Judging by last season Klopp on trusts 10-15 of them. That's not enough to compete when you have both domestic and European commitments. I think we need a quality CB and CM. Not just bodies but guys who have a good chance of pushing existing players out of the team this season.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I think our number one ambition should be to see if we can concede less than 50 goals.
Hard to believe we won the title once conceding just 16 goals in a 42 game season. We only conceded 4 at home as well and 1 of those was an OG.

[aCe']

I think the same issues we had last season will carry on to this one. We desperately need to defend set pieces better. Every corner kick against us is like a penalty kick now. I dont think playing Henderson+Can makes us any better defensively. If anything, it reduces our possession and makes us look poor going forward for large stretches. We're better off when Wijnaldum & Lallana play ahead of one pivot.

At the back, all of Mignolet, Matip/Lovren, and Moreno/Milner need to improved on. I still think Matip & Lovren are good enough but given our vulnerability in set pieces & crosses, we need a CB who is aerially dominant. I'd also go as far as saying that the LB we get should be over 6ft and a good header of the ball to help us in dealing with corners and crosses. It's embarrassing really.

If we are serious about being a top side in the league, we need to sort the 3 positions out sooner or later.

[parchpea]

We reward failure club needs to be ruthless and replace people who constantly let us down.

No good putting the same guys out there and there is only so much you can do in training, until we become more hardcore and put the trash out it will be an endless struggle.

This summer was opportunity to dump Lovren, Moreno, Klavan, Mignolet, Henderson, Origi and I could go on but we have done NOTHING AT ALL.

Same players same outcomes.

[ken_job]

Learn how to defend

[jacdaniel]

From the time the VVD transfer went south, I had a bad feeling.  That was followed by keitha.  Then Coutinho handing in transfer request. 
We struggled to make top 4 last season without European football.  This season I think we'll struggle to cope. 

Could be a blessing in disguise to get beat by Hoffenheim and try to do next summer what we failed to do this summer.

Unless of course we magically do things in the next 2 weeks.  Seems unlikely given our past record in the market.